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To think dd's class mates are really naughty.

(85 Posts)
Hando Tue 10-Nov-09 14:09:43

I have known since last year that there are 3 children in my dd's class that are very badly behaved. I see this for myself at morning drop off (parents at our school go into the classroom and read with their child until the bell rings) and see their behaviour at pick up time. Also, dd likes to tell me all that happens during the day.

Yesterday at pick up one of the dads said "has he been good today?" in front of his son, to the teacher. Understandably the teacher was a little put out, not exactly appropriate to discuss that infront of the child, but just said "he could try more and could be better". Dd later told me he'd been talking all the way through story time, running about the classroom and generally being naughty. One of the other boys was sent out of the classroom for repeatedly misbehaving. She has said to me that these 3 boys often do this, and I have seen their behaviour so know it is true. I upsets me as I do feel for the teacher, she only has 1 part time TA and a class of 30 must be difficult to handle alone.

Surely these children can't just be "allowed" to disrupt the rest of the class. Dd has said she often gets up and moves seats as she can't listen to the teacher if one of these 3 sits next to her. Yesterday she was unhappy as she missed the story at the end of the day as this boy spoilt it for them all.

My dd can be cheeky and naughty too, I am not claiming she is never badly behaved but she knows that she needs to be well behaved at school. These children are saying no to teachers, running around the room, refusing to sit and do their work, refusing to be quiet. If it were my child behaving like this I'd be mortified and doing everything I could to sort it out. That is not to say they aren't, I know, but one of the boys parents just drop him off each morning leaving him to his own devices until the bell rings. The other morning I caught him snatching something off a quiet boy who was really looking scared. The teacher hadn't noticed (30 kids and lots of parents in the room, so understandable that she can't see everything). He was pulling a face and didn't let go til he got the toy. Another day I saw him stopping my dd from opening her book tray and banging his into her hand, over and over. Both times I have told him to stop and that he was being unkind, but he didn't seem to care. Another one of them swears lots ( he came to dd's party last year and I was disgusted)... they are only 6!

I'm not sure what I can do though, I am assuming nothing... I just seems such a shame that my dd and the rest of her well behaved class are having their education disrupted in this way by these 3 boys.

edam Tue 10-Nov-09 14:12:04

Maybe you could talk to the teacher? Very carefully of course, in a polite 'I'm a bit concerned that dd is telling me there are some disruptive boys in her class so she has to move seats or she can't hear you and I gather they all missed story time...' way?

Jeminthecellar Tue 10-Nov-09 14:13:36

Why don't you volunteer to be a parent helper

Hando Tue 10-Nov-09 14:16:21

I have volunteered. The have refused all help from me and other parents as it's school policy not to have parents in the class. I even volunteered to help in the other class to free up the TA to spend more time with dd's class. Their policy doesn't allow that either - bloody stupid if you ask me. Not that I should have to volunteer to ensure the other children and my dd are able to learn without these boys behaving like that all the time.

colditz Tue 10-Nov-09 14:17:29

Try volunteering to help in the class room.

I can see both sides of the coin. I was a good girl at school and I hated the disruption of "the boys" (and it always was boys)

however, I now have two boys, one of whom is six and can be on the disruptive side. He doesn't even remember to keep putting his pants on onnce he has started, so wouldn't remember a WORD I said about his behavior in the class. I am a very strict disciplinarian - but he is a very rambunctious boy.

colditz Tue 10-Nov-09 14:18:15

Your only recourse then is to make a complaint that your child's education is being disrupted.

bigchris Tue 10-Nov-09 14:19:47

if you dont think your dds teacher is any good you could complain to the head

Sazisi Tue 10-Nov-09 14:22:39

I do think you are being a bit unreasonable. And very pfb to boot.

They are only 6 hmm and running around and being a bit loud is hardly the crime of the century. You sound like you want these kids expelled.
Perhaps you could encourage your own child to have some tolerance.

Hulababy Tue 10-Nov-09 14:26:14

By 6y children should not be running around the class disrupting everyone IMO. I work as a TA in a Y1 class and the teacher and myself would not stand for that. I do not think you are being precious in wanting your DD to be able to enjoy school and be able to focus on what the teacher is doing, without these disruptions.

If it is as bad as your DD says you need to go and speak to the class teacher, if it is impacting on your DD's education.

Trifle Tue 10-Nov-09 14:29:33

Unfortunately this is the most frustrating part about having such large classes. When you get even one child misbehaving it disrupts everyone. More often than not their bad behaviour stems from a chaotic and often troubled home life and swearing and misbehaving are all that they know.

I have got so many friends who complain about the disprutive kids in the class who are violent, disruptive, swear, hit etc. The parents called in but when the parents dont give a shit and discipline is non existent then their behaviour will never improve.

We chose to move our son into a private school where the Head will absolutely not tolerate or even consider admitting any child who has behavioural problems. Some in the class are not particularly bright but they all behave or they get expelled and the parents care enough to make sure that doesn't happen.

If your child is stuck with these kids for the next 5 years or so then it's going to be a long frustrating journey. Have a word with the teacher by all means but I imagine the teacher has had many many words with the parents and the result is never going to improve.

MoreCrackThanHarlem Tue 10-Nov-09 14:31:19

Errr, why should the op's dd have to learn to tolerate being hurt, or her school day being disrupted by other children, Sazisi?

And so what if they are 6? Op's dd has to behave appropriately and she is 6 too. UTGSN, obviously.

southeastastra Tue 10-Nov-09 14:33:05

how depressing trifle, sounds like a shite school private or not if they have to expel children rather than teach them to behave

HeSaysSheSays Tue 10-Nov-09 14:33:49

I don't really understand, you say there are problems with these boys, fair enough, but in what way are you seeing your dd's education being disrupted? Is she progressing slower than she should? Or is she wandering around the school unsupervised maybe? Perhaps this bad behaviour is rubbing off on her???

All children have a right to an education - badly behaved or not, 30 dc with teacher and TA is normal, this is how the teachers expect to work so your teachier should not have any more difficulty than usual with the class. Children have to learn to deal with disruption just like the teachers do, it is a fact of classroom education TBH.

My dd went through school in class with two boys who had been on report for their behaviour in nursery a third boy with the same "challenges" was in the opposite class. None of the children have suffered in an educational sense and the boys have gained from the concistancy that having a well behaved class around them gives. They are all now in high school and progressing very well. DS has a couple of children in his class with SN, they disrupt things in various different ways, sometimes simply by leaving the class for various reasons, sometimes by needing more attention or explanation and so on - but I would say that is enriching my ds's education not detracting from it. Learning to allow for another persons needs is part of school life - an important part if you ask me. As is learning about some undesirable behaviour and how that can have an effect on other people!

You can't say that classroom education is the way to go for you, but only if the right children are in the class, it simply does not work that way. If there are no real signs that your dds education is being unfairly hindered then you would be best served leaving the teacher to get on with it rather than adding additional pressure that will just leave her less able to cope in the long run.

Hando Tue 10-Nov-09 14:33:56

My daughter is very tolerant thank you sazisi. She is bright and sociable and happy. Not pfb at all to not want your 6 year old to have to move seats all the time to be able to learn, in year 1!

By 6 I too expect a child to be able to sit and listen, not to swear or run around like a toddler. I did not say I want them expelled, but they are rude, very badly behaved, have no boundaries and are disrupting the class.

Hulababy, you have the point exactly. We have parents evening soon and I think I will discuss with the teacher.

These 3 boys now have star charts up in the clasroom, not the other well behaved kids, just these three. They are given stars when they haven't behaved badly for a whole "lesson". Also allowed to do the "privilidges" that all the children want to do (for some unknown reason) turn the lights off at the end of the day, ring the bell, be at the front of the line. So these children behave for once and get the nice jobs and kids like my dd are almost always well behaved and get no recognition or reward.

seeker Tue 10-Nov-09 14:34:54

"We chose to move our son into a private school where the Head will absolutely not tolerate or even consider admitting any child who has behavioural problems."

Any suggestions where the children with behavioural problems should go? Or is that someone else's problem?

mice Tue 10-Nov-09 14:35:56

What a cheery post Trifle!
6 yr olds can change - to write off a "naughty" child at 6 years old is really very sad.
As a parent of older children you also realise that being smug about "naughty boys" is something you should be very careful of as little girls can be a real delight at times too!!
Please speak to the teacher, take things your children tell you with a pinch of salt until you have fact telling you otherwise and try to see the good in all children without writing them off at such a young age.

HeSaysSheSays Tue 10-Nov-09 14:36:13

Trifle "Unfortunately this is the most frustrating part about having such large classes. When you get even one child misbehaving it disrupts everyone. More often than not their bad behaviour stems from a chaotic and often troubled home life and swearing and misbehaving are all that they know. "

WTF????

Jeepers, you need to get yourself an education hmm

LynetteScavo Tue 10-Nov-09 14:37:42

Most 6 year olds do ont run about the class room and most of them know when it's apropriate to be loud, and when it's not.

IMO there is usually one boy child like this in every class...myabe your DD is just very unlucky?

The school does need to take some action to help these boys though. Maybe they already are, but it can't hurt to have a word with the head, especially as it's effecting your DD.

OrmIrian Tue 10-Nov-09 14:38:06

What seeker said.

hmm

How bloody depressing sad

Hando Tue 10-Nov-09 14:40:29

I think trifle, that may well be the case. The area I live in is full of parents who just do not care enough to be bothered if their child is badly behaved. These parents may be the same, they may not, but it is a possibility.

I do not blame the child, no 6 year old is totally accountable for thier behaviour, it is the way they have been raised and having parents who don't care, don't discipline and refuse to co operate with the school to resolve things is never a young childs fault.

The school have a seperate class for children with SN, so it can;t be because they have SN, just badly behaved - which can be fixed, it just hasn't been so far and this is the second year, another 5 to go I fear! My daughter does well and is good at all the right things for her age, we do lots of reading and writing at home and she enjoys learning. These boys beahving this way has not made her behind in her learning, just made it harder and less enjoyable. Plus the swearing really makes me cross, I do not want her learning swear words. sad

nappyaddict Tue 10-Nov-09 14:42:13

"We chose to move our son into a private school where the Head will absolutely not tolerate or even consider admitting any child who has behavioural problems."

If children have behavioural problems due to SN I think that may be very illegal.

nappyaddict Tue 10-Nov-09 14:43:13

"The school have a seperate class for children with SN, so it can;t be because they have SN, just badly behaved"

Or it could be that they have SN which has gone unnoticed so far.

LynetteScavo Tue 10-Nov-09 14:45:07

X-posted with you Hando...hadn't read the bit about the start charts, ect, so it sounds like the school are addressing the situation somewhat.

I do understand the point you are making about these children being given privilages for behaving at a basic level; I do undertand that it can seem very unfair for children like your DD. These boys need positive reinforcements to help improve their behaviour,and TBH I'm not sure how the teacher could handle it better. I'm speaking as the mother with 2 DC's who behave perfectly in school, and one DS I probably wouldn't want in my child's class if he wasn't my child. (IYSWIM)

Celery Tue 10-Nov-09 14:45:15

You don't know these boys, or what the circumstances are. I'm the mother of raucous, disruptive, sometimes badly behaved boy, and I do care, and I have done everything I can do make it better. At aged three, in preschool he was labelled naughty, all throughout reception, Years 1, 2 and 3 he was the "badly behaved boy". Finally, at nearly aged 9, he has been diagnosed with ADHD and Aspergers.

Whilst I agree he can't go around hitting other children, I do wish people were more tolerant and understanding. A few simple measures in school have helped him to become much less disruptive. It often doesn't take much, and if sticker charts and rewards mean that he's not hitting other kids, then surely that's a good thing?

It often feels like you can't win - it's unfair that these boys are being rewarded for good behaviour, whilst your daughter gets no rewards? And it's unfair that the boys are disrupting your daughters day. What are the teachers supposed to do? They can't win.

Maybe one day you will have a son or daughter who is, through no fault of your own, "badly behaved".

Trifle Tue 10-Nov-09 14:46:37

Not really, have enough experience to know that most 7 year olds dont tell the teacher to fuck off, throw chairs at her, hurt other kids, chuck shoes, books, pens at them etc etc. All these incidents reported by the TA happen on a daily basis. And his parents? not interested. My friend has to physically escort her 9 year old into school daily so stop the class brat hitting and kicking him in the cloakroom. She;s had 3 years of this and it has never improved. His parents do not care. These kids are appallingly behaved and the school is limited as to what it can do.

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