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to think if your 3 year old pulls your hair you should not do it back?

(90 Posts)
nappyaddict Sun 08-Nov-09 12:27:24

I know I know I shouldn't judge and it may have been a once in a blue moon thing and never ever happened before and will never ever happen again but the other day I was in Primark and a girl of roughly 3 years old was being carried around by her mum. The girl then pulled her mum's hair and her mum pulled her hair back and said "See, it hurts doesn't it."

Do lots of people do this and it is seen as acceptable because I've never seen it before?

Sassybeast Sun 08-Nov-09 12:28:57

What should she have done instead ?

wannaBe Sun 08-Nov-09 12:32:37

I might not do it but I don't necessarily think it's wrong. Perhaps this child has a habbit of pulling hair and perhaps the mum has had enough.

And sometimes showing a child what they've done by example does work.

prettyfly1 Sun 08-Nov-09 12:33:43

my son at this age went through a phase of biting - hard - everyone around him to the point where I was called out to take him out of nursery on a number of occasions and nearly lost my job. I begged, pleaded, removed toys, tried time out, ignored - nothing and I mean nothing worked. In the end when i was once again called out of work I bit him - not hard enough to bruise but hard enough to hurt - on the advice of the nursery manager I might add who had had the same issue with her daughter. He has NEVER bitten anyone ever again. Its none of your business how a parent raises her child and chooses to show that behaviour is wrong. The fact is if that woman had sat her child down and told her off in the shop some other -wellmeaning- individual would come in and tell her off for that so yes yabu.

MrsSeanBean Sun 08-Nov-09 12:39:35

I personally would not use this technique to correct a child. I suppose I am of the opinion that it undermines the point that something is wrong if you then perpetrate the same action. But of course we must not judge / no-one else's business how they bring up their child etc etc. (Unless presumably it falls outside of the legal definition of 'reasonable chastisement' in which case it would by definition be unreasonable.)

I once heard a woman say that she rubbed her child's nose in poo when potty training so he wouldn't 'mess himself' again. shock

I wouldn't even do this to a dog. But then I am very soft.

Morloth Sun 08-Nov-09 12:42:26

I did it, it worked.

Same with the the biting thing. He was warned. He continued. I did it back. Problem solved.

Result as far as I am concerned.

sayithowitis Sun 08-Nov-09 13:04:18

I think there is a big difference between copying a child's actions to show them that it hurts and rubbing their noses in faeces!
Certainly, if either of my DCs did something that physically hurt somebody, I or my DH tended to do the same thing to them so they could understand that they had hurt someone. With biting and hair pulling it worked.

The difference is that a child chooses to carry out an action which might hurt someone else, but they do not control the point where they will have sufficient control over bodily functions to make the other example acceptable IMO.The only thing I could imagine happening as a result of that would be to cause the child to develop a real fear of going to the toilet, with potentially dangerous consequences to their health.

shockers Sun 08-Nov-09 13:08:01

I still remember my mum biting me after I had bitten my baby sister ( I was very jealous). I never did it again. When my son bit my cheek I screamed, put him down and turned my back. He never did it again either.

I'm a bit confused though. If a child smacks you. Do you smack him back? If not, why?
There is another thread on which someone is being persecuted for slapping her son "gently on the back of his hand".
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of this, just observing from atop the fence of bemusement.

BertieBotts Sun 08-Nov-09 13:12:02

I don't have a 3 year old so I don't know their level of understanding. But if a 3 year old is able to understand empathy I can see the logic - but I don't think I'd be able to do it myself. I'd probably take the coward's way out and wait for the day another child pulled her hair and then say "See, that is how it feels when you pull others' hair, it's not nice, is it?" blush (And obviously hope the other child apologised)

Morloth Sun 08-Nov-09 13:14:52

I don't know shockers DS only ever went to hit me once, I grabbed his hand and said NO in the deepest scariest voice I could muster (he was pretty young, can't remember exactly), hasn't happened since. (Obviously have been whacked in the normal course of excitement, but not the same thing).

We did do the finger tap for a small toddler along with a No and usually an explanation why (but sometimes just the No).

Don't care what others do/think. DS is a delight, well behaved, intelligent, respectful and thoughtful, will be doing things in exactly the same manner with the second one because I haven't seen any other methods of parenting that would be as effective for us.

We rarely need to discipline at all these days. I freely admit that this is probably mostly down to his rather chilled personality rather than entirely to parenting.

MintyCane Sun 08-Nov-09 13:16:02

I don't see why you can't just say don't do that it hurts. How can you persuade someone that doing a certain thing is wrong if you do the same.

PavlovtheForgetfulCat Sun 08-Nov-09 13:18:03

Of course it is wrong! same as biting a child, or smacking a child. Lead by example. What example will that set? That it is ok to do something if someone does it first? or its ok to use violence as a way of demonstrating a point or punishing?

My 3 yo usually bites/hits/pulls hair out of over excitement or desire to get my attention, rather than intention to hurt me, why on earth would i want to hurt her deliberately in retaliation? I would want her to learn there are better ways to get my attention.

If my DD pulls my hair, which she has done, and bitten me, and hit me - i firstly put her straight down and tell her off, tell her it hurts and what will happen if she does it again (sanction of some kind). If I am in an inappropriate place to just deal there and then, like a queue i would await her reaction and a sorry. If it did not come, I would leave the queue and deal with it away from others.

So, no YANBU.

RockinSockBunnies Sun 08-Nov-09 13:22:08

I wouldn't rule out that strategy. Thankfully DD was never a hair puller or biter, but when I was a toddler I went through a biting phase. I bit my mother in the middle of the Post Office, she turned round and bit me back. Apparently I never bit anyone again!

Whilst I understand that creative thinking around a problem is all well and good if you have the time, energy and inclination, I don't dismiss the short-sharp-shock tactic either.

PavlovtheForgetfulCat Sun 08-Nov-09 13:22:17

According to Safeguarding Children and social services, child protection training, biting a child is deemed as child abuse. So why would not pulling hair? If it is done deliberately and with the intention to cause pain/hurt, its abuse. IMO and in the eyes of the law, which is more important than my opinion.

shockers Sun 08-Nov-09 13:23:36

I love the deep scary "NO" method morloth! I use it in the school playground sometimes... they have to stop pulling limbs off each other to find out what creature has made that sound!
I was just puzzled because the poster on the other thread was getting a really hard time.
envy at the child with the chilled personality!!

RockinSockBunnies Sun 08-Nov-09 13:25:23

Well, as far as the law is concerned, a parent may chastise their child so long as there is no visible damage. Thus, so long as they do not commit ABH or GBH (or any of the Offences Against the Person Act), then they may discipline as they choose.

So, pulling hair would, legally, be acceptable, as would a smack that didn't leave a bruise, ditto a bite.

Booyhoo Sun 08-Nov-09 13:32:19

when i was a child my mother said that she was advised to bite a child who bit. she never had to do it as we werent biters but that was the advice that was going round at the time. (20 years ago approx)

its not for me, i just cant imagine doing that myself but it may work for others.

FanofFireworks Sun 08-Nov-09 13:39:04

I'm the same as Morloth - did it once, cured forever... same with biting too (didn't hurt THAT much, obviously!)

KimiTheThreadSlayer Sun 08-Nov-09 13:41:33

Sorry but as the mother of one biter and one hair puller who exhausted all other strategies to stop them I see nothing wrong in showing the child why not to do it.

Both mine stopped once it had been done to them

Morloth Sun 08-Nov-09 13:41:58

shockers, "The Voice" is/was my fav method of discipline. I suspect it only works though when they know that you will back it up if you need to.

Have never gotten past 1 in "The Count", neither he nor I am actually sure what would happen if I got to 3 and neither of us want to find out wink.

borderslass Sun 08-Nov-09 13:43:32

mine are older 18,15 ASD & 14 eldest never bit and was a delight same with youngest a raised voice was enough to stop them, however my son was a biter,hitter puller of hair and one day when youngest was 6 months old stripped her off for swimming to find 3 or 4 large bite marks on her back I was horrified and told my health visitor in case we were reported for child abuse her advise at the time was to bite back it didn't work he just laughed at me.So it works with some but not all.

JackBauer Sun 08-Nov-09 13:56:18

Yes lots of people do it and it is generally offered as a 'good thing' to fix 'problems' with your child.
Personally I think its ridiculous to show someone not to do something by doing it yourself but there you go. (Am a mother of a biter, hair puller, kicker and thumper BTW. Not that it matters)

howmuchdidyousay Sun 08-Nov-09 14:06:02

I feel quite ill at the thought of a parent biting a child.Even if it has worked in some cases I don't think the end justifies the means

hanaboo Sun 08-Nov-09 15:09:45

exactly what morloth said.. in fact my dd sounds just like her ds lovely and chilled

and i did the scary voice thing when she hit me... it worked

Oblomov Sun 08-Nov-09 16:14:38

I don't think its that awful. My sil;s boy was a biter. He bit her and she talked to him, said no. Then one day, she was washing up and he bit her on the inner thigh. She was shocked by the pain. And she was embarrasses to admit that she turned round and bit him. And said the same thing as your woman did.
And he never did it agin. And she is a nurse. the most gentile loving parent I know.

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