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Anger Management advice in 11 yr old PLEASE.....desparate.

(44 Posts)
TheMitsubishiWarrioress Tue 03-Nov-09 08:10:03

This took place last night

I am desparate to stop the violent side of the rages, I am struggling to cope (I am now a lone parent),

Please, if anyone has any tips how to diffuse the rage, I would deeply appreciate it.

I 'lose' him and as he gets more and more aggressive, braking things and being verbaly abusive, my ability to remain calm and patient melts away. It is hard to watch the house being trashed without getting anxious. And then I panic and don't handle him very well.

He has been assessed for a multitude of things but is just described as challenging. Even in a good mood he can be like a hyper happy tasmanian devil.

We are seing CAMHS and SS.


pLEASE, HOW DO i DIFFUSE THE ANGER? I understand he has massive feelings, but this is doing so much harm to his self esteem and DD's feelings.

TheMitsubishiWarrioress Tue 03-Nov-09 08:13:18

I am out all morning but will reply when I get back.

shineoncrazyfirecracker Tue 03-Nov-09 08:24:32

Message withdrawn

jetforkesandbonfires Tue 03-Nov-09 08:29:25

hey TMY - wow it sounds like you are really having a tough time.

I think you need to stress to SS and CAMHS just how tough you are finding things, and ask for their advice on how to handle DS. Is there a specific issue that sees him kick off IYSWIM, and maybe try and head that off at the pass - i dont think i explained that very wellblush

So, this time it seemed to be him wanting to do the experiement? Does he have problems with waiting to do something, especially if he can see it out? I know my DD does (she is 12) but instead of kicking off, she withdraws, making it harder to get her to do anythingsad I try and avoid this by getting things out one at a time, and at the last minute, so she doesnt feel too overwhelmed.

How does your DD cope with DS? Maybe she could benefit from someone to talk to as well - either yourself or CAMHS - just so she can offload?

I think you do a sterling job, and i know how tough it can be as a single parent. I hope things have calmed a little today

bigTillyMint Tue 03-Nov-09 08:35:38

Shine, I doubt that speaking to him like that and marching him out of the room when he is in a rage would help. He might even start attacking the OP. And 11 is quite big. He might be able to understand when he is calm, but when a child is in a rage like that, nothing gets through.

Ideally you need to diffuse the situation, but I know from personal experience that that is much easier said than done.

My DS has massive verbal rages which are absolutely dreadful- it is impossible to get through to him when he is on one and they make me feel far worse than just anxiousgrin

It's great that he is making progress (DS is much better than he was too), but it's two steps forward, one step back. Obviously you'll be able to talk to CAMHS and get some advice, but it's not easy in the eye of the stormgrin

shineoncrazyfirecracker Tue 03-Nov-09 08:39:18

Message withdrawn

AtleastbeCYBILtoeachother Tue 03-Nov-09 08:42:12

How about just understanding he's angry by saying stuff like 'You seem/sound very angry' or 'I can see you are angry' rather than trying to stop him or tell him off.

If he is breaking stuff he needs to find a way to verbalise his anger not act it out and he needs to know that.

When he is calm can you approach him then about how you can help him?

Let him have an 'angry place' he goes to, maybe his room or the garden where he can rant a bit .

Also with challenging children where I work we do ABC (Antecedent/Behaviour/Consequence)forms where you think about what triggered the incident.

Is it the same trigger each time. Doe he know what triggers him?

bellavita Tue 03-Nov-09 08:49:09

Mitts, I don't know what to say, but wanted you to know that I am thinking of you xx

thesecondcocking Tue 03-Nov-09 08:50:28

have you thought about maybe sitting down with him when he's not in a rage and pointing out that what he has done is an assault/crime and if he does it again you will be calling the police since he has no respect for you/your home/your family.
If he can keep a lid on it at the assessments he can keep a lid on it when it suits him.
He cannot be allowed to bully and brutalise you and your family and you must tell him that you will have no qualms in getting him taken away if he does it again.
*awaits flaming* i've told my daughter (15) that if she continues to misbehave i will be sending her to her grandparents house-having first filled them in on what i have been dealing with with her over the past few months-she doesn't want others to know how vile/the lies she tells so this is a real threat that i will carry out next time.
i do feel for you though honey-is there an aunt/uncle/family friend you could send him to who will look after him but not pander to him or be intimidated by him?

AtleastbeCYBILtoeachother Tue 03-Nov-09 08:55:46

Have just read your post from last night, and I agre with the poster who said you perhaps may need to change the way you tell him no, so he doesn't hear 'no' IYSWIM. (Not blaming you)

But I think the most important thing is to try to get to the bottom from him of what tips him over. He's old enough to be able to verbalise it, and to understand there is an alternative way.

controlfreakythecontrolfreak Tue 03-Nov-09 08:57:14

just a thought and it may have no relevance to your ds... but my ds1 (12) has terrible mood swings sometimes which are always related to what he's been eating / not eating and his blood sugar levels... could this be a factor? the minute i see the first signs of a problem / realise he hasn't eaten properly / is hungry i try to make sure he eats a bananna / oatcakes or similar. this really is the key for him.

crumpet Tue 03-Nov-09 08:58:36

What are the immediate, direct consequences of his actions? Does he lose pocket money/have his computer taken away and stored at a friend's house for a period etc etc? If he realises that there is a swift consequence to his actions then it may help him to think before he gets out of control.

hairymelons Tue 03-Nov-09 09:03:21

Posted on your other thread. I'm so completely unqualified to comment as DS is only 16mo but...
You probably can't stop the rages when they start but you could probably come up with some ideas together for ways he could express his rage safely. As CYBIL says,a place to go, or a punch bag or just to shout rather than break things?
As suggested, you could talk to him when he's calm about why he thinks he might get frustrated and how you could help him when he's feeling angry? Is it clear to him that it's ok to feel angry but not ok to break things or shout at his sister?
Talking through some practical solutions might make him feel a bit better.And knowing that you can help him will make you feel better too. Maybe talking to DD along the same lines would be helpful.
Sorry if I'm off the mark, hope you find the solutions you need.

VinegarTitsOnFire Tue 03-Nov-09 09:03:57

Oh TMW you poor love, it must be terribly stressful for you, i have no advice, but im here to listen

VinegarTitsOnFire Tue 03-Nov-09 09:27:50

What i would say though, having gone through all the stages of childhood behaviours with my ds1, that this goes far beyond the realms of just lack of disapline, its like something snaps inside him and he can't control it, so shouting and asserting yourself, doesnt sound to me, like that is going to help (soz Shiney i know you are just trying to get the bigger picture by asking that)

shineoncrazyfirecracker Tue 03-Nov-09 09:34:31

Message withdrawn

prettyfly1 Tue 03-Nov-09 09:36:48

Mits - what is he doing physically in terms of excersize? I am not being an insane health freak but when my neighbour had a similiar problem with her son at a little older, one of the things that helped was getting him out to burn off energy. He now goes boxing which might not be right for you but lads entering puberty age do seem to need physical exertion if they have masses of energy to help them balance up a bit.

I have to say though that it does sound like he has maybe gotten a bit used to getting tons of attention for this bad behaviour and may be using it as a tool for controlling you - he has no sn or behavioural issues - altough there could well be room for councelling - so it has to be assumed that this is a boy who is choosing to rage rather than unable to stop due to a chemical or physical imbalance.

bigTillyMint Tue 03-Nov-09 09:38:44

Yes vinegartits(grin) you're right, IME.

Cybil, I have often tried that approach with my DS and it sends him into an even greater rage - ie "don't patronise me with that crap" and he's only 8! My DS wants you to truly feel his pain - put his anger onto you. It is very hard to deal with at the time.

Mits, have you read Raising your Spirited Child? It rang so true for mesmile

VinegarTitsOnFire Tue 03-Nov-09 09:43:24

Nah your not Shiney, your great at giving advice

Does he have any input from his dad Mits? sorry i dont know your back ground so not sure, if not is there a male influence in his life? grandad or an uncle?

I know whenever my ds1 and i were at loggerheads, he would always listen to my dad or one of my brothers when they tried to reason with him. I think boys of that age are very influenced by male role models, so is there someone you could get to spend some time with him, to just listen to him, and try and get to the bottom of his anger?

GypsyMoth Tue 03-Nov-09 09:46:39

i have a ds same age....he occasionally,less now,but sometimes,has anger outbursts too. on one occasion we videoed him....showed it back when he was calmer. he was horrified. i asked him if his friends did this,and how they would react to seeing this (his sister said she would show it at school assembly,jokingly)

it seemed to work. now if he starts,he does seem to think a bit...a bit of gentle humiliation perhaps?

we kept the bit of video,and he now laughs along with the rest of us at how silly he was being and its become 'family history'

you do need to sort this,as they approach teen years the violence becomes dangerous and what if he starts outside the home? with others?

bigTillyMint Tue 03-Nov-09 09:53:45

Oh, that's a good idea Tiffany - maybe I'll try it next time DS kicks off!

bumpsoon Tue 03-Nov-09 10:07:22

Whilst my DS wasnt nearly as bad as this ,he at 11 would also throw a complete wobbler over the most trivial of things ie the wrong socks ! i used to try and be the calm parent and talk to him ,but me simply being there seemed to make him worse ,fuelled his anger . The way i dealt with it was to go out ,used to grab my DD and get in the car and drive round the block or turn up at a neighbours for 10 minutes . By the time i got back he had calmed down and was at a point where we could have a conversation . Usually he was very apologetic and knew what he had done was wrong , if he had made any mess/damage he was then punished accordingly .
I also wouldnt tell him you feel anxious by his behaviour .
Does he do this anywhere else ? My son never did this with anyone other than me , i suppose because i was safe, he knew that i loved him regardless. If its any consolation at all he grew out of the outbursts and at 15 rarely loses his temper.

EccentricaGallumBANG Tue 03-Nov-09 10:28:28

major sympathy but not much advice as DD2 (also 11) is exactly the same and I have no idea what to do with her either.
If she is thwarted in any way she does the same - major tantrums, screaming, breaking things, hitting (me or DD1) etc.
We're seeing Cahms on thursday. I'm hoping they have a magic wand as I too am at witts end.
I left the house early today and just left her and DD1 to sort themselves out and go off to school because I couldn't stand it any more.
this mornings anger was to do with waking up at 6.35 instead of 6.30, leading on to her screamng, waking up DD1 too early, them fighting, DD2 shouting for 45 minutes about having the wrong colour undrewear clean, couldn't find her library book after she had said she had it last night, leading to more screaming and throwing. Just an average morning.
I'm about to write a list for the Cahms people because when she is seen she appears a normal, bright, sane person. and she's not.

earlyriser Tue 03-Nov-09 11:01:35

Have you tried 'How to Talk to Kids so Kids will listen..' it is a really good book and although it won't be an instant overnight change it may change things for the better in the long term.

TheMitsubishiWarrioress Tue 03-Nov-09 13:06:55

shiney...being calm is one of the things that has stopped these rages from occurring several times a day. Calm, assertive and clear.

He is already being 'punished' for consistantly not coming in on time (computer privilages withdrawn).

It was about 15/20 minutes before I left the room, he had started smashing things and if I raise my level to authoratitive, his temper escalates. He was smashing a torch and I tried to get it from him but it becomes a ridiculous wrestling match, and then he threw it at me. We then get a scenario where so much of his behaviour is out of line No, I don't know what to deal with. These incidents regularly bubble to the surface and most of them I 'manage', but when he flips like that, No, I don't have a clue how to 'bring him down'.

If I assert..'go to your room' his response is 'make me'.. I have been advised by SS that tryinbg to get him up is not on, and I can't pick him and when his Dad used to he smashes the bannister rails as he goes, or pulls cupboards over.

I have found recently that he had accessed Gay porn (hadn't got parental control as the computer is in the living room, but he had been going on when I started to fall asleep reading to DD.) I found an e-mail account that he had opened and it had mails from three men. His relationship with his Dad is a mess. His Dad, I don't know what to say, it would be a thread in itself. But he always threatens to 'quit' on DS when things get rough.

OK. DS has always been challenging. We suffered 4/5 bereavements in a few years of people DS was close to and these rages started. In front of DS, H told me I had to either give up DS for adoption or he would leave. Then backed down, butwhen these rages occurred, said things like 'do you want to end up in care?' I asked him to leave but he said he would give 100% to trying to fix the damage, but he had drinking issues. By march this year I said enough was enough and by the end of june, he found somewhere to live. Some of 'h'S rages with DS got physical, that is when I involved CAMHS and SS.

'H' threatened suicide and alsorts and it really fucked my head up. It is still monumentally fucked up and I am not overly confident, so I know I am not always as assertive as I need to be. But generally life has calmed down since 'H' left, but DFS just pushes boundaries the biggest majority of the time. It is mentally exhausting.

He doesn't get away with stuff, that is the weird thing. He knows if I say 'no', it sticks but he will challenge until he gets bored. I say things like 'I have made my decision and there is nothing more to discuss' and just get 'buts' and 'ifs . He is like a dog with a bone and if I do any kind of distaction thing, he will sneer..'I know what you are trying to do mum so don't bother'.

I will say over and over and over, 'the way you are talking to me is unacceptable, and will not achieve what you want. I want an apology' He does back down more now and it upsets him very much that he hurts me and DD, but it comes in cycles and we seem to be in one.

I really 'lose' him, where authority and reason don't connect.

Jet..'no' in any form can kick him off. However I put it when he realises he is not getting his own way, he fires up

Controlfreak, food is a massive issue, and tiredness and hunger are a bad combination. He will say he is hungry, so I say to have a Banana and he will refuse. mOney is a nightmare becuase if he has pocket money he spends it on sugary junk, but if I control that the local shopkeeper says he hassles his mates for money or to buy things for him.

I will try the books and this post is so long already.

The 'consequences' thing is hard, so much of his behaviour is challenging that if I am not careful, he would lose everything and I have been advised that this is too negative.

I do say things like 'if you don't do x or y, then you will lose computer time or pocket money' to try and give him an incentive to try harder. But this is just a constant, stream of challenges.

And when he is high and on one it is the same but he is just good natured about being obtuse. IYSWIM.

We do talk when he is calm and he agrees with me, hates being like that, is very loving to me and DD, and in his own way he tries and then something throws a spanner in the works and it is all forgotten.

The balance betwwen finding the root causes, dealing with emotions, and also having a balanced family life where he knows not to cross the line is a nightmare.

Sorry again. My head feels like it is going to explode. We were having such a fab evening, it totally blew me away.

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