to be getting a leeeetle bit hacked off with the postal strike...

[AtheneNoctua]

Today I have to take a 2 hour lunch to sort out a Halloween costume because I can't rely on the mail to deliver one if I order it online. That is 2 hours of my work which I will have to make up if I want to be paid for it.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8327158.stm

I selfishly hope they hire the contract workers.

What about the public who relies on this service? Where is our compensation?

I will add I don't know the details of the reasons for the strike (because they aren't reported and not because I haven't looked). So I don't have an opinion on whether the strike is justified.

But I am starting to feel they have made their bloody point and I want my mail service back.

[Firawla]

i hope they hire the contract workers too, yanbu
i think a lot of online shopping sites are using couriers and so they say it wont be affected by mail strike. still you can not always rely on that 100% either

[fairycake123]

I don't think they're trying to "make a point" so much as use the walk out as a bargaining tool.

[treaclespongeofdeath]

YABU to be only a leeeetle bit hacked off - I am mahoosively annoyed by it!

They may well have a good reason but that doesn't stop it being a bit frustrating. I keep receiving parcels, credit card bills etc up to 4 weeks late and I can't imagine how much damage it's doing to small businesses.

[IneedacleanerIamalazyslattern]

They don't have many good reasons TBH.
I am mhooooosivly pissed of with it and my DH is a postie.
SO YA sooooo NBU.
I am doing the costume thing tomorrow because I cannot rely on getting on delivered on time.

[schiaparellipink]

Halloween is on the same day every year you should have ordered it sooner. YABVU particularly in your support of scab labour.

[AtheneNoctua]

I keep wondering what they think will be the state of their jobs when they have run Royal Mail into the ground. Is this not adding a few more nails to the coffin?

Oh I can see it now... a government bail out funded by my taxes?

BTW, Hello I needacleaner! How are you?

[TheDevilEatsBabies]

OP: lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala

YABU.

not wishing to sound harsh, but i'm fed up with having to argue this.
it's about human people having to put with shit conditions that in most sectors had been abolished in the Victorian mills.

why don't you look at the reasons behind the action, look at the union literature and listen to some postal workers instead of believing whatyou read in the press?

even the BBC are reporting it from the side of the bosses, who don't give a crap because they'll get paid anyway.

and i agree with scahps: the scab labour is illegal anyway.

[AtheneNoctua]

I could understand your poin about ordering it cleaner if they hadn't been on strike last week or last month. But, I heeded my warning long before this week.

If there are enough reasons topersuade me to sympathise with the strikers, by all means someone enlighten me to their side of the argument.

[Fibilou]

"YABVU particularly in your support of scab labour"
Why ? Because she expects a service ? As far as I'm concerned they have a good job and if they don't like it maybe they should find something in the private sector that doesn't pay so well.
My husband and I are not allowed to strike and have had to put up with our pay deals being reneged on. We have no recourse to strike action and I don't think any other workers providing essential public services should do either.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Lots of websites are advertising that they are using couriers so that orders are not affected. Amazon also appear to have moved more business to couriers and this is bound to have an affect on profits etc for the Royal Mail.

Its the small businesses that will have difficulty as they dont have the bargaining power with other couriers to lower prices based on volume.

I disagree with the strike, given the economy they should be grateful they have jobs rather than not doing them due to deciding to strike. If they continue to lose business, especially at peak shopping times, then they wont need any staff anyway.

[TheDevilEatsBabies]

(ineedacleaner, i can't believe that you don't agree with the union: does your hubby not suffer the same as all the other posties?)

[TheDevilEatsBabies]

" Fibilou Tue 27-Oct-09 11:47:17 Add message | Report | Contact poster

"YABVU particularly in your support of scab labour"
Why ? Because she expects a service ? As far as I'm concerned they have a good job and if they don't like it maybe they should find something in the private sector that doesn't pay so well.
My husband and I are not allowed to strike and have had to put up with our pay deals being reneged on. We have no recourse to strike action and I don't think any other workers providing essential public services should do either. "

BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL!!!!

[Fibilou]

Doesn't mean you can't support the idea. Lots of things are illegal, eg cannabis. There are plenty of people that support its legalisation

[Morloth]

I am pretty keen on unions and can live with the inconvenience. But I do wonder what the hell they are thinking striking now.

People are making alternative arrangements and many businesses will simply not trust RM again, I don't and will not - so lets just hope there are jobs for them to come back to.

[TheDevilEatsBabies]

...

[Firawla]

I don't see whats so wrong with this "scab" labour, surely if they are not willing to do the work let somebody else do it?
You won't get away with that in many other jobs (private sector) as people mentioned, if you're not willing to work as the job requires then get another job. There is plenty of unemployment these days, im sure many people would be happy to take up the role of post man. What is so bad about their work conditions anyway?

[marenmj]

agreed - iirc the strike was about pay and pensions?

surely if they drive online retailers to use alternate services they are just reducing the amount of business they get and therefore the amount of money in the pot for pay and pensions?

I could imagine them feeling justified if the royal mail had posted record profits, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

It seems that 08-09 is the first year they have actually made a profit in 20 years.

IMO, striking in the run-up to Christmas will hurt them more than it will help. I can see how someone would think of it as strategic timing, but really it's just going to piss people off who would have been sympathetic had it been done at another time.

Especially in a year when many of those same people have had to take pay cuts just to keep their jobs. Wildly insensitive if you ask me.

[TheDevilEatsBabies]

(my [ was to Fibilou, not morloth )

[AtheneNoctua]

I don't believe it has yet been ruled as illegal. Let's let the judge decide (later today).

So, what are the changes that have upset the posties? If they are being asked to double their hours for no more pay, I can understand being upset. If they are being asked to get the pension contributions and pay outs in line with current trends in private industry, then I might not feel so bad for them.

So, please, someone enlighteen me.

[Cadelaide]

I'm very worried about it all.

We run an internet retail business and this is a very important time of year for us (lots of xmas-based stuff). Orders are down, I assume because of the strikes and fear of parcels arriving late/not at all.

As HappyMummy correctly says, there are no viable alternatives for smaller businesses like ours where the average parcel is below 2kg.

[JodieO]

Aren't they saying it isn't illegal as they use extra staff every year and it's just to cover back logs rather than replacing staff that have walked out?

Imo they're stupid to strike as they'll lose their jobs in the long run when the royal mail makes more cuts due to loss of business. Golf clap.

Plenty of people have to arrange pay, cuts etc without strike action, it's essentially like blackmail to me.

[notanumber]

I find it quite interesting.

Strikes are problematic I think, for the very reason you state, AtheneNoctura. They horribly inconvenience the public and therefore resentment sets in, which does not help their cause at all. I suspect many people just wish they'd shut up whining and deliver the bloody letters.

I believe it was in France (not sure about this, would be very happy to be corrected) when striking transport staff turned up to work and did all aspects of their job except taking money. They ran the trains but unlocked the swipe barriers and closed the ticket office which effectively meant that passengers travelled for free. The public were therefore very sympatheic to the staff's grievances, and the company took a direct financial hit.

This kind of action obviously is more difficult to achieve in the postal service of course. I'm not sure, could the union announce that if the public post unstamped mail they will deliver it anyway?

It also begs the question of whether modernisation should be blocked so that jobs can be retained.

The business needs to save money. If it can do this by introducing automated systems and letting go of staff currently doing those jobs, why shouldn't they do this? After all, staff cuts are happening in all areas of business now that we're in a recession. I understand people getting hacked off with the Royal Mail employees demanding protection from this when no-one else has it.

[IneedacleanerIamalazyslattern]

Look devil I'm not going to get into what's and weherefors over it.
No I don't agree with all of it and I don't apreciate the face either.
TBH posties (whether you agree or not) don't have it as bad as a lot of them make out yes there are problems but believe me they are better off than a lot of people are but you don't hear them grumbling about the good points do you?

And I couldn't get halloween costumes until I get my maintenance tomorrow so had to leave it until the last minute this year unfortunately. Never mind will get something and believe me the fact I have to go shopping is no reflection on the postal strikes i'm just grumpy about shopping in general.

Hi Athene How are you doing?
You up this way anytime soon so I can finally make a meet up?

[TheDevilEatsBabies]

marenmj : of course they won't make any profit!

that's the reason it should be a government agency and not private!

you pay to send a letter, but you don't always pay as much as it costs to send the letter, if it did you would moan like buggery.
you also don't pay to redirect the letter if it's sent to an old address.

the postman also delivers to your house letters and packets that didn't start out in the RM system: letters from abroad, letters sent via TNT etc: the royal mail doesn't receive payment to cover the costs of delivering.

you know there would be mad complaints if you had to pay to receive these letters, or have 30 odd men coming to your house to deliver all the different things.

and you know what? you wouldn't be getting it as cheaply as you do with RM either.

[AtheneNoctua]

I'm up Thursday, but only for the day. So will have to drop you a line next time.