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to object to this blackmail over CRB checks?

(33 Posts)
clam Mon 28-Sep-09 14:04:23

Are people aware of this? If we want to help in our children's school, even for a one-off occasion such as an outing, we have to be CRB checked to prove we're not child-molesters. BUT, furthermore, it transpires that if OFSTED check back on the paperwork for any recent trips and discover that a parent-helper has not had the relevant check, then the school cannot get anything more than satisfactory in its report.

Am I alone in thinking this is outrageous?

beaniesinthebucketagain Mon 28-Sep-09 15:22:04

YANBU,

im sick of the ridiculous rules theyre putting in place, Ive now got concerns over taking turns babysitting so me and other mums can have a night arvo off, apparently you can only have a friend relative babysit if you gain nothing from it, STUPID!!!

Rubyrubyruby Mon 28-Sep-09 15:24:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Babysamrocks Mon 28-Sep-09 15:43:56

It is ridiculous. The cost of getting crb's proccessed also has to come out of the school budget. Our Deputy head said they cost about £65 per person to be checked. No wonder schools don't have parent helpers they probably can't afford them.

morningpaper Mon 28-Sep-09 15:46:06

I think this is perfectly sensible

Rantagonist Mon 28-Sep-09 16:09:36

You're not even allowed to trust yourself these days, let alone anyone else. Guilty until/unless you can prove yourself innocent. Welcome to Airstrip One hmm

Rubyrubyruby Mon 28-Sep-09 16:51:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

famishedass Mon 28-Sep-09 17:07:16

OP where did you get that information from, about Ofsted only giving a Satisfactory rating if they've used unchecked volunteer parents in the past?

Coz I walked up and down to the leisure centre with the children many a time and I'm not police checked and our school got a Good Ofsted Report.

FimboFortunaFeet Mon 28-Sep-09 17:11:15

I went on a school trip once as a parent helper and took ds in his pram too, I am only talking a few years ago, I wonder what they would make of that now.

I work in a school and the office said to me, if they put on the CRB form that someone is a volunteer they don't need to pay for the check.

MoreCrackThanHarlem Mon 28-Sep-09 17:11:59

Not £65, there is a special volunteer rate of around £25, actually.
It's a pita, but in this culture of blame I feel it's essential for the school to cover their backs.

islandofsodor Mon 28-Sep-09 17:15:10

I pay £50 for a full enhanced CRB check including registered body admin fees. Volunteers are free apart from the admin fee.

Under the new scheme it will be around £70 if you are employed but free for volunteers. That will be one check which will be valid for all places of emplyment/volunteering and it will be constantly updated so a much better system.

There are many schools reguraly using non CRB checked staff and volunteers so its no wonder OFSTED are checking.

Blondeshavemorefun Mon 28-Sep-09 17:32:53

for schools etc - i think it is a good idea and it is there to protect the children

say for example that your dc went on a school trip/in car with one of the parents - and something happened and then you found out that the mum had previous for gbh/smacking/burning children with cigs (yes has happened)

wouldnt you have wanted to know about this BEFORE you allowed your child to go with them

same as parents helping at nursery etc HAVE to be crbed before they can can take to the toilet

RubysReturn Mon 28-Sep-09 17:35:22

Actually, considering the admin involved £65 or £25 ia quite reasonable.

In many ways I think this is the very least a school can do to check helpers do not have a conviction that makes them unsuitable to help with children.

Mermaidspam Mon 28-Sep-09 17:49:17

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I'd pay the £70 myself if I knew my child wouldn't be in close proximity to a child molester.

katiestar Mon 28-Sep-09 19:07:08

I am not sure that this is true.I helped for over a year in school and had no CRB.When it was the OFSTED inspection , the inspector asked me if I was CRB d and I explained that I had a recent CRB from another setting which I had copied for the school.I know that this is strictly sopeaking against teh rukles but the school got an overall good and no mention made in the report.

Mermaidspam - a very naive comment if you think a CRB check means the person isn't a child molester.Just means they haven't been caught - or rather hadn't been cAUGHT AT THE TIME OF THE crb CHECK WHICH MIGHT BE YEARS OLD.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 28-Sep-09 19:11:28

This is part of the new OFSTED framework. Safeguarding. It's driving our Head round the bend...

exexpat Mon 28-Sep-09 19:25:14

I agree with what Katiestar said - CRB check is no guarantee of anything, except that a person hasn't been caught (yet?) in the UK, while using that particular name.... It's just a piece of paper, and no substitute for common sense, supervision, and educating children about self-protection.

I have often been on outings and helped out at my DC's primary school, without a CRB check; I've no objection to having one done, but since I've spent most of my adult life outside the UK, it seems a bit of a pointless exercise - presumably they wouldn't check criminal records in the other four or five countries I've lived in? And I'm certainly not the only parent with a similar background. So - should all parents who haven't been residing continually in the UK for the past 10 or 20 years be banned from helping out? Or should we all use a bit more common sense about this...

clam Mon 28-Sep-09 19:30:02

katiestar/famishedass - it is perfectly true - but the rules changed at Easter this year, so you may have been helping under the old system.
And we have just spent hours chasing around trying to fast-track some checks prior to an imminent trip. We have only 20 parents on our "list" out of 450 children. Hardly any are from my class, so the trip may well not take place. We have no helpers to accompany the class swimming, either. Even those parents who are checked can't/won't commit to every week.
And the checks also lapse. So if you are covered, then don't come in to help for a few months, it becomes out-of-date.

And I'm sorry, but I don't think it is making children any safer in school. What it is doing is making the likelihood of our children going out on trips or undertaking extra-curricular activities less and less likely.

Mermaidspam Mon 28-Sep-09 21:36:21

I'm hardly naive Katiestar, given that I work with children and young adults I know about CRB checks.

If a school requires the CRB then they can't accept one which is "years old". Legally, a new one has to be done.

AtheneNoctua Mon 28-Sep-09 21:58:26

Any organisation can choose for themselves if they wish to accept an existing CRB check. But I think a CRB check is only good for 3 years.

I do think this piece of paper is rather a false sense of security.

Does anyone know when voluteers will be required to get the ISA check?

CuntWhacker Mon 28-Sep-09 22:31:31

It is nonsense. Nanny state gone bloody bonkers.

katiestar Tue 29-Sep-09 09:13:12

Mermaid - they can teach 20 years in a school without a new CRB check being required

Judd Tue 29-Sep-09 09:21:13

Vetting and Barring system (run by ISA) starts on 12/10/09. It is going to be phased in over the next 5 years though. It will cost a paid worker £64 to register - this is a one-off fee - and it will be free for volunteers. You get an ISA registration number that a prospective employer can use to check online whether you are reigistered . It will show whether you have been banned from working with children or with vulnerable adults.
CRB checks will still be used because they show a full criminal record. - eg. you may not have been banned from working with children (which an ISA check would show) but you may have a criminal record (which a CRB check would show) that would make you unsuitable for the prospective job/voluntary post.
Hope that helps x

clam Tue 29-Sep-09 09:40:29

But I don't see why this sort of check is necessary for a parent-helper, coming in to school to help with painting. Or leading a group round a museum on a trip. Or standing in the middle of the road on guard while the kids cross.
There will always be a teacher in attendance. How much damage could even someone dodgy do in those circumstances? As a society, we've become hysterical about child-protection in the wake of Soham, for instance, (which quite likely could have happened anyway, as that happened out-of-school hours. Yes, he worked at the school, but lived locally and those girls might have known him anyway and stopped for a chat and to see his dog) and the authorities want to be seen to be doing something about it. But all it's doing is creating a real headache for schools and youthgroups, and making it more and more likely that such organisations give up the idea of providing extras. We've tried very hard to maintain them over the years, but the goalposts keep moving and the hoops harder to jump through.

AtheneNoctua Tue 29-Sep-09 12:37:06

So, if I got get a CRB today do I need a new one in the form of an ISA in November or in five years?

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