Apparently the world is too 'female'.....

[docket]

DH was voicing his view last night that 'masculinity' is being wiped out and that men can no longer do the things that make them men any more because they are frowned upon and that in a few years there will be a need for a 'masculinist' movement because the world is becoming so 'female'. He inferred that these manly things include shagging and fighting without consequence.

I was trying to make the point that in a world where equality is still a million miles away this kind of whingeing is pathetic and that men were only able to do these things in the past (largely) at the expense of women. I actually had to leave the room in the end because of a strong desire to lamp him.

I think his attitude sucks and his view of the world completely deranged. These views don't really seem to be in sync with the intelligent, thoughtful man I thought I had married. AIBU, is this just a typical male view? If I'm not, how can I put him right back in his box?!

[TaxiLady]

should have decked him...might have curbed his urge for a bit of "fighting without consequence! !

[docket]

Oh, I wish I had...

[juuule]

Sounds very immature to me.

[Stigaloid]

Oh yes- definitely too feminine. Tell that to the afghan wives who are legally allowed to be starved by their husbands if they don't have sex with them.

[nicknameidlike]

well we dont really need them much do we?(men i mean) ikeep mine to do some diy and drive me to Ikea

[docket]

I did mention the Afghan wives but he was talking about the UK, apparently.

You're right, it is completely immature.

[shonaspurtle]

Shagging and fighting always had consequences. Usually the consequences were an early death unless you were lucky/top male.

You could argue the shagging has less consequences now that you don't get marched to the alter by your pregnant gf's father.

I think the fighting bit has partly been replaced by football and computer games hasn't it?

[monkeyfeathers]

Tell him there already is a men's movement.

There's also Robert Bly's mythopoetic men's movement, which was some big deal in the early 90s. Lots of crap about hunting and gathering.

Don't all snigger at once.

[Longtalljosie]

Yes, you can tell he's right because all the positions of authority in the UK, all the CEOs of the major companies, the senior politicians, judges... women, the lot of them.

[OrmIrian]

Ahhh I see where he's coming from. Men are being expected to grow up! How terrible that musbt be.

[fluffles]

i think that some men who are very insecure ARE genuinely feeling a bit lost in the world right now.

unlike your partner, i think friday night testosterone-fueled fighting is a symptom of this issue NOT a sign of the 'good old days'.

Our society seems to be revelling at the moment in treating men like children and this is just enabling them to behave like children.

being a man these days does not mean hunting or fighting or even going down a coal mine for most men but it DOES mean being a grown-up. I see so many men even on MN who behave like another child in the family and it drives me mad.

I think as a society we DO need to establish what 'being a man' is about.

[docket]

monkeyfeathers, that is hilarious. I am tempted to book DH into a mythopoetic weekend. Perhaps a session in the sweat room followed by some role playing with some like-minded tossers will sort him out!

[VinegarTits]

'I did mention the Afghan wives but he was talking about the UK, apparently.'

Buy him a one way ticket to Afghan

[Thunderduck]

Did he elaborate on what he meant by the things that make men men?

[ABetaDad]

docket - tell him to get himslef a logon here and argue his case. I would suggest he starts his MN career with the following thread title:

"AIBU to think the World is far too female"

I imagine he might get a few responses.

However, I do think a lot of men (especially young men) do not know what their role in the world is anymore. The "shagging and fighting and beer drinking and going out to work" used to be the simple answer but the traditional roles pretty much have gone and men have to redefine their role in society so he does have a point and it is one worth seriously debating.

[VinegarTits]

'However, I do think a lot of men (especially young men) do not know what their role in the world is anymore. The "shagging and fighting and beer drinking and going out to work" used to be the simple answer '

Since when was shagging, fighting and beer the answer to a man role in life

This is certainly not what i bought up my ds1(20) to think, and is not what my dad, or my grandfather thought their role in life was

[MotheringHeights]

Does anyone know their role in the world before they determine it, though ABD? The world has changed for everyone. The arguments sometimes on SAHM and WOHM threads demonstrates that many women are unsure about how to redefine their role and how to make valid choices in the light of so much change.

There's been a lot of discussion over the past few years about how men's changing role in society has left them confused. To assume it's left all men confused is a little patronising to men, and to assume it hasn't been equally confusing for many women is shortsighted.

TBH, I think economic rationalism, the free market and rampant consumerism have been responsible for much of the wholesale change in society over the past decades.

The debate about how we all redefine our roles in the face of change is also very interesting.

[oneopinionatedmother]

men have stuff to whinge about, but not nearly as much as women.

when men are paid less than us, do more housework and worry more about how large their arses are, then your DH would have a point.

Not until then though - YANBU

[TheCrackFox]

When women start earning less women (in the UK) then I will take their whinging seriously.

[slug]

Yes of course, now that rape has been sorted out and women routinely get paid the same as men for doing the same job, life has become very difficult for them hasn't it poor dears

[ABetaDad]

VinegarTits - "Since when was shagging, fighting and beer the answer to a man role in life"

Well I certainly do not believe it is my role and of course it is a gross characterisation but for many men it used to be true in a kind of way.

Thinking about my FIL. His Dad worked in a steel mill, drank beer every day after work at the workng mans club. My FIL in turn did national service, and came very close to fighting in Suez, used to go every week to the working man's club and his wife (my MIL) stayed at home to have children. My FIL saw/sees his role as provder and protector of his family and expected to have a few pints every night and have a job for life until it all got blown away in the 1970s recessions and he lost his job and to some extent his role as a 'man' in his family.

My Dad feels pretty much the same was as FIL - so in one generation men have to some extent lost that traditonal role.

Look at a lot of young men now in old working class areas in gangs, carrying knives, dealing drugs. Their only definition of being 'a man' is how high up the gang structure you are. Even if he can get a girl the girl does not need him because she can get benefits and a house if she has a baby and if he lives with her she is worse off as she loses benefits.

I do not feel like this but a lot of men clearly do.

[makipuppy]

Perhaps your DH is expressing The Call of the Wild?

Early man hunted and fought, was exposed to danger and generally charged around exhileratingly. Even up to the industrial revolution, families all worked together on the land. Call centres and offices compare pretty poorly.

My DP is an intellectual neanderthal - I kid myself that my disdain and disapproval have killed his howling nerve but I haven't even dented it.

Have you thought of dropping him naked and hungry in the middle of an unfamiliar forest? Then sit outside your cave with your enticingly draggable hair etc. etc.

[AliGrylls]

A lot of men feel this way from what I understand.

At the risk of being slated I am going to say that I do believe they may have a point (in law). The reason I say this is because:-

Women get a year mat leave (albeit only partly paid). Men get 3 weeks pat leave. The law has also recently been changed to say that employers have to keep a woman's job open for that year. A man who wanted to do the same thing would not have the same rights.

If a couple get divorced (with children) the Court system favours custody of women.

In addition to this it is well known that if you are a woman married to a wealthy man the place to be is the UK if you want a divorce.

As for the percentage of men in the boardroom being higher, this is largely a consequence of females deciding to opt out of the workforce. Clearly there are some male sexist professions (banking, management consultancy..) but there are now plenty of female ones including media and childcare.

I don't expect people to agree with me. It is an opinion after all.

[VinegarTits]

Aligrylls are you a man by any chance?

[TheCrackFox]

Ali, I think the Family Courts favour children, not men or women.

Most women are not married to rich men. If me and DH decided to get divorced we would be fighting over our massive £250 savings.

Women are much more likely to be sacked when they announce they are pregnant. I can't think of a single example of a man losing his job because his wife is up the duff.

Sorry, but I don't buy all this male bleating. It is self indulgent twaddle.