to tell my BIL to sod off at christmas and visit another time?

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

Oh its so long I won't even go into it in detail.

I am a name change btw as he is nosey.

He lives in USA. lots of family coming over and accommodation plans already agreed, i have spent hours and hours looking for the right places for the family, all close together so we don't have to travel/drive and big enough to have a huge family christmas.

I will have a newborn baby (lets say 4 weeks old, depends on arrival of the little one), so we were going to stay with them all, rather than travelling back and forth back and forth.

Anyway, stupid selfish brother who wants it all his own way, and always scuppers plans, seemingly on purpose to wind everyone up, has now decided he wants to get his own place, in the city we live in. We were going to be sharing a house with him over christmas so its just thrown our plans completely. We are not planning on renting in the town we live in on the basis we cannot find anything for everyone that will suit.

he is acting like a child, and there is not need for it, both DH and I are considering just telling him to come on his own after christmas, as I think his issue is jealousy at other family member coming too, not him as the centre of the family.

Can I just tell him to sod off, or should we just let him call the shots?

[MrsTittleMouse]

Eh? I don't really understand. If Christmas is in the city where you live, why do you have to share with your brother?

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

we live in a tiny flat.

Everyone else wants to rent several large properties just outside where we live, so we can all be together, and have a big table to eat at, and have a holiday together. We are not going to be too far away from home as we have a newborn, in case I need to come home for any reason, even for half hour.

We cannot get large properties (need 2 or 3 due to number of people coming) in the city we live as its not possible, so we thought just outside would also be nice, in the country.

BIL has decided he is renting a flat, on his own, or rather with his own immediate family in the city where we live, rather than were everyone else will be, and its a pain as we were going to share with him.

Make sense now? probably not.

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

The thing is, he is not doing it for any reason other than to be a pain. He is a contrary so and so, and is giving no reason for it, other than thats what he has decided.

The other family members are likely to feel obliged to do the same, as he is quite overbearing with his moodiness and will bring everyone down. He is quite miserable and grumpy and likes to make things so complicated that everyone ends up saying 'sod it, this is too much, we will just do our own thing' and messes it up for everyone.

He did it at our wedding, not wanting the very very close accommodation we found for him, but a B&B further away, which meant he had to drive his family back to the B&B rather than have them walk to it when ready and could not get himself home easily and drink any alcohol. And he was crabby as he lost out. He did it one time at christmas when we went to visit family in france. He made such a huge deal and made it complicated, that he decided not to go, then missed out, and was miserable as he missed out.

he will do the same here, he will make it complicated, and awkward for god knows what reason, mess it up for us all, we will sort it all without him/with him in another location and he will be miserable as he will have to do all the driving. Or else everyone will change all their plans and he will still be miserable as christmas will be cramped as everyone will all be in apartments.

[noodlesoup]

Were you going to rent a bigger house with him next to the other houses outside the city you live in?

[IsItMeOr]

YAbeingabitU - why is your brother a child for not wanting to fall exactly in with what seem to be your plans? Is it so unreasonable for him to want to have a bolthole for his family to nip back to at Christmas? Maybe sharing with a newborn isn't their idea of fun?

Think you should look to see if you can rent a smaller place outside the city as per your original plans but just for your immediate family.

[bigchris]

I would stay and home and just turn up for xmas dinner

You won't want to stay anywhere else with a newborn trust me

[bigchris]

just seen yuor other post

the whole thing sounds complacated, maybe it's you who are making it complicated not him?!!

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

Yes, of course we could do that. but that was not what we have spent the last 4 months trying to arrange with many many people and finally coming to an arrangement that many were happy with (16 people)

We had all felt it would be nice to all have a holiday together, it has never been done before. It probably won't happen again. DH will be cooking (in charge of at least) christmas dinner. If he has to ferry me around (for example if I cannot drive due to a caesarian) he will have to do trips with me a newborn, cooking, he won't be relaxed, wont be able to have a beer with family he hardly sees, won't necessarily be able to leave me with a toddler and a newborn at home if I am tired.

We wanted to stay with everyone so we could all be a family. That was the whole point of it. So yes, we can stay at home and go visit, but that is a holiday for us.

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

isitmeor - they are not my plans, they are plans of 16 people with us being put in charge of finding accommodation as we live here and they don't.

We are, as it happens, just going to stay here, and say sod it, let them do as they please, and we will just visit for christmas day, but some have not been here before, and we wanted it to be special for them ALL, not just my BIL, who always changes plans that affect everyone just as it gets sorted. And who has been to england for many christmas's.

[bigchris]

in that case why don't you offer your flat to your brother?

make sure the rest of the family don't change their plans

have you booked the accommodation already?

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

noodlesoup - we were going to rent one very large property that could house everyone for christmas, for all the children to have space to run freely (there will be 6 children of various ages). then two smaller properties on the same land (have found a couple of idea places) for those who wanted smaller space. We said to him he could have one of those smaller spaces if he did not want to share. He does not want to do that. He wants an apartment in the city. Away from everyone.

We have never decided where everyone would stay. We have given several options to the family, and this option is one that everyone (including BIL at the time) agreed to. and I emailed the details of all possible places so everyone can be involved in the decision.

I just do not see the point of him coming if he is going to be elsewhere, or if everyone will be spread across the city

[IsItMeOr]

TBH this all sounds like rather a bad plan to me given you will have a newborn. DH and I wouldn't have been able to cook christmas dinner for ourselves with a newborn, let alone 16 people.

Sounds way too stressful, and I think that's what you may be feeling now? I think BIL has given you a good excuse to gracefully back out of plans that I think would have left your immediate family too exhausted to enjoy. Sorry that you feel you have wasted a lot of time you probably didn't have on trying to make the plans .

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

bigchris, I prefer the idea of being in one place for a few days with a newborn, that having to drive/be driven to different locations each day. If I am in one location, I can just go to bed for an hour if I need to, have space to feed baby, whatever. if I travel from our flat each day, I will not have that flexibility.

I guess I could offer him the flat. he would like that, cheap. In fact that is probably what he is angling for come to think of it , so he won't have to pay for accommodation like everyone else!

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

isitme - you know, before he changed the plans, its was all lovely and smooth and I was actually really looking forward to it. And I am really looking forward to the other family coming. It is stressful now, as he has changed things for us, without any good reason.

I really do not want to cancel, as it would be lovely for us all to get together. But if he is going to be a pain about it, and moan and stamp his feet as he did on the telephone yesterday with DH, I would prefer he did not come until another time when we are up for travelling to visit him.

Everyone else is happy with the current arrangements.

[proverbial]

Why don't you stick to your plans, book it so it can't be changed, and let him do his own thing? I realise how irritating it is, but its his choice to do what he wants, and your choice whether the be affected by it. If he changes everyone elses plans then you and they have allowed him to do that, you need to take responsibility for your own decisions.
You all stay where you have planned, he can do what he wants. If it makes him miserable, tough on him, no difference to you unless you let it.

[bigchris]

if you do what proverbial suggests will you all have to pay extra because your brother hasn't gone in with you?
does he have a family or is it just him on his own?

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

Oh and christmas cooking - DH loves it. He is a fantastic cook, and he has roast dinners down to a fine art! He would be fine as long as he has a glass of wine of beer in his hands and some-one to peel the veg! Which he won't have if he has to look after me.

In theory, if it had all panned out as we had all intended, I would actually have lots of extended family around me to give me a hand with the newborn.

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

bigchris - yes if he does not come with us we will all pay extra. He has his own family, wife and 2 children.

[noodlesoup]

I would just plan it as if he wasn't coming and let him sort out his own place to stay and travel to you when he wants to. You can't make him fall in with everyone else but you can make sure that the people who want to be together have a good time.

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

proverbial, yes, thats pretty much were we are at. We will do our own thing, and when he realises he has made the wrong decision, again, then tough on him. But he will be so miserable, I just think he might be better if he does not come at all and bring everyone down.

bigchris I am not so bothered about the money side of things. We can figure something out. We would have to do that whether he gets his own place, or does not come at all.

[MrsMattie]

No offence, but if he is a grown man with his own family, surely he should be allowed to decide where he's staying?

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

And you know what? It might even be easier to find somewhere nice without him there!!! He can sort out his own place for his family. You are right. We shall continue as we were, and let him do what he wants to, travel as he wants to.

I am not going to offer the flat to him. If he wants it, he will have to ask for it.

[bigchris]

good plan
I'd ring everyone else and get in their first and tell them your going ahead and he's decided to sort himself out

[ItsaJollyHolidayforMary]

MrsMattie - yes, he can, and by gum he is! But why do it in a way, and at a time that potentially messes it up/makes it awkward for everyone else? We are all grown up, but have not just done what we liked. Everyone else in this party has compromised and adjusted to fit the needs and desires of others. And why now, why not 2 months ago? Why, just as we were about to settle on something that has taken months to organise?