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To have got annoyed with dd's school this morning.

(24 Posts)
MissSunny Tue 23-Jun-09 09:33:08

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MissSunny Tue 23-Jun-09 09:35:46

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PeachyTheRiverParrettHarlot Tue 23-Jun-09 09:39:30

DS2 goes into a jobshareteacher class next term, teachers need flexibility as much as any of us and i'd rather 2 decent job shre teachers than one bd FT yeacher (have experience of both)

The teacher will also need PPA time per law aso there is no teacher always there any more- even a FT opne will have some PPA time and courses: courses run when they run and teachers need updating

Your want is understandable but sadly doesn't quite meet real life; YANBU but YABO (you are being optimistic)

gagamama Tue 23-Jun-09 09:43:39

I don't think it's feasible to have the same teacher all week because teachers are entitled to PPA time, which is 10% of their teaching time - so for a full-time teacher, that's 1 afternoon a week anyway. In my DSD's class it's the HLTA or headteacher who covers this, but in other classes in the school where there are job shares because the teachers have family commitments, etc, that does introduce extra teachers into the mix.

YAB fairly U, it's obviously not ideal, but short of forcing the 4-day-a-week teacher to work 5 days (which she probably wouldn't be happy to do, and would have an afternoon away from teaching for PPA anyway) I don't really see how they would be able to avoid it.

ingles2 Tue 23-Jun-09 09:46:07

YANBU, but unfortunately you are going to have to get used to it. As Peachy says, teachers have to attend courses, do PPA etc. These days you have no chance of having the same teacher in the class 5 days a week.
ds2 has had a nightmare this year, he has job share teachers. 1 is the deputy head and the other unfortunately has been off the entire year as he has cancer. They have had 9 different supply teachers now to cover those 2 days and it's never the same one 2 days in a row.... roll on next yr.

bruffin Tue 23-Jun-09 09:47:24

Why were all the parents in the classroom? I would have thought that would have been upsetting for the children and made matters worse.

ingles2 Tue 23-Jun-09 09:47:52

<Peachy... have you been on the cobb thread yet? >

Stayingsunnygirl Tue 23-Jun-09 09:48:41

Well - if it is not possible to have the same teacher all the time, then surely every effort should be made to ensure that there is as much continuity as possible.

Of course, with the best will in the world, this isn't always possible.

edam Tue 23-Jun-09 09:51:16

Agree the 5 days a week thing doesn't happen now, ds's teacher has one day a week covered by someone else. BUT it's how the school manages it that's important - four different teachers in reception is ridiculous!

RustyBear Tue 23-Jun-09 10:04:13

To be honest I think you're pretty lucky if you've only had one non-regular teacher in 5 months. At the junior school I work at, we try to have as much continuity as possible, with regular PPA cover teachers, but for sickness & training courses supply is needed - again we have 'regular' supply teachers we go to first, but in an emergency or if they are busy, we have to go to an agency.

It sounds possible that either teacher 1 job shares 4/1 days with teacher 2 or she's a Newly Qualified Teacher (NQT), who gets extra time out of the classroom for the first year (our NQTs get a morning for this + an afternoon for PPA) and is covered by a regular replacement. If she is an NQT she would possbly then be going on regular induction & other training, which is again covered by a regular person (teacher 3) - so teacher 4 was presumably only there because of sickness or other unforeseen circumstances.

Sometimes more experienced teachers have responsibilities outside the classroom, either as co-ordinator for an area of the curriculum or as SENCO or as an AST (Advanced Skills Teacher) who will spend 20% of their times doing outreach, sharing their skills with teachers in other schools

LadyGlencoraPalliser Tue 23-Jun-09 10:12:07

Well my first reaction is there should have been no mums in the classroom, because that won't have been helping the situation any. I regular supply a week is normal in any school - all teachers have one half-day's PPA and many teachers have a full day if they are NQTs or have extra responsibilities elsewhere. One regular supply is a good thing IMO as it gets the children used to dealing with different adults which is quite an important part of being at school.
And as it doesn't sound like teacher three and teacher four are regular parts of the mix, then I think yes you are BU and PFB.

traceybath Tue 23-Jun-09 10:15:25

I'm undecided as to whether you're being unreasonable or not.

DS1 also reception has a consistent teacher and TA but also has quite a lot of other lessons with different teachers, eg, Computing, French, Music, PE so sees quite a mix of teachers which probably adds up to at least a day a week.

Perhaps if you thought of it a bit more like that it wouldn't seem so unsettling.

gingernutlover Tue 23-Jun-09 10:16:23

sometimes schools have to use supply - it cant be helped. And sometimes that has to be somone that the children havnt met before. Its a great pity that the TA is off as well today but that isn't anyones fault is it?

Why were all the parents in the room? do you take the children direct to the classroom? I just speak from exzperince when I say that this will not really have helped the teacher. And it will have prolonged the agony for the children too.

YABU to be annoyed at the school - it isnt their fault that people are ill or that people ar on prebooked courses. I think at my school they would have arranged for the the supply to have borrowed a known TA for the first hafl hour or something but maybe this wasnt possible

Swedes Tue 23-Jun-09 10:20:10

What is PPA?

DD goes to primary next Sept and I'm horrified by this story. DS2 had the same very experienced teacher for the whole of reception in a class of 12 with a part-time teaching assistant. But I can't find anything even remotely similar to that for DD, unless I pay.


gingernutlover Tue 23-Jun-09 10:22:07

swedes a class of 12 with a teacher AND a TA is very unusual

the legal limit is 30 and there is now law which specifies that a TA must be there either! Rubbish I know

PPA is Planning, Preperation and Assessment time. All teachers get 10% of their teaching time in PPA.

gingernutlover Tue 23-Jun-09 10:22:35

sorry, there is NO law

MissSunny Tue 23-Jun-09 10:25:35

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Swedes Tue 23-Jun-09 10:29:08

What do teachers learn on all these training courses they go on? Does it benefit their pupils more than being engaged with the pupils in the classroom?

LadyGlencoraPalliser Tue 23-Jun-09 10:31:51

Yes, of course, because they bring back new ideas to use with their pupils and share with their colleagues. Professional development is necessary in any job, surely?

Swedes Tue 23-Jun-09 10:32:36

Gingernut - Thank you for your explanation. smile If the legal limit is 30, how come MissSunny's dd is in a reception class of 32?

LadyGlencoraPalliser Tue 23-Jun-09 10:42:51

As far as I am aware, the only reason there can be over 30 in reception is if the extra pupils are statemented children who have their own TA.

gingernutlover Tue 23-Jun-09 10:48:29

i dont know why there are 32 in miss sunny's dd's class

the legal linit (certainly in england) for recption, year 1 and year 2 classes is 30 children to one qualified teacher.

the only way extras are allowed is if they get in on appeal because the school/council made a mistake or if they get ion on special needs basis (I think, dont quote me)

I have also heard of schools that register the children in various different rooms so that the "Tutor group" sizes are within the law

it is bad practice - and should be illegal to get round it in these ways

this year i have done courses on phonics and also on wellbeing - both of which I feel have really impacted my practice in the classroom.

However this week my job share partner has to go on a moderation meeting for our end of year scores, and we both have to be out at certain times to visit next years new entrants, oh and we'll both get PPA - it does get a bit ridiculous and we are trying to cover for each other wherever we can but it's just not always possible

lljkk Tue 23-Jun-09 10:48:43

Some extras must have got in there on appeal, Swedes. Not on, though, is it?

I can't believe there isn't an extra TA, either. DS is in large room of 2 reception classes combined (divided by age into 2 different corners for carpet time). The adults are: 1 FT teacher, 2 PT teachers, and a myriad of TAs (at least 2 on any given day) and regular parent volunteers and students on work placement or similar. There are only about 54 children, too (one of the merits of not being a very popular school), so adult:child ratios work out much much higher across the entire group.

MissSunny Tue 23-Jun-09 10:57:41

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