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AIBU to be sad and shocked by this article? part 2

(424 Posts)
FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 20:15:20

Moondog - that's the reporter that said those things - just pointing out what I should imagine were some pretty obvious things to the naked eye

The same article says that

"Louise is not inclined to blame the government for her difficulties. She is grateful for the money she gets every week and doesn't think her life would be much enhanced by increased payments."

moondog Sat 21-Mar-09 20:16:49

But she moans about stuff in smae breath!
I don't blame her for moaning, nor do i deny she has a pretty shit life, but it's not poverty by any stretch of the imagination.

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 20:17:03

she was in a relationship with a DP that worked when she fell pg.

I think if she was going to get pg to get the benefits she'd have done it sooner than 2yrs after leaving school - don't you?

moondog Sat 21-Mar-09 20:19:45

Where's he then?
Why are we paying for that fuck up?

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 20:24:14

moondog - poverty IS all relative, the conditions I lived in in my time in Zimbabwe would have been classed as "poverty" my you I'm sure, but to those living around me we were doing "ok" (not great, just ok).

I'm sure the condition in which people live in in Bangladesh which are "ok" would also be described as being poverty by you or I too.

Where does she moan in the same breath? She says she's not greedy, and that money can't always make you happy.

And I think you'll find that her DP did the same as many other DP/DH's around the country do - f*cked off. Something that happens to even highly educated woman, who have their own high flying jobs.

salome64 Sat 21-Mar-09 20:47:30

ladies, we have two new continuation threads...

StewieGriffinsMom Sat 21-Mar-09 20:48:31

Message withdrawn

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 20:49:23

well I got there first so - nerrrr wink

StewieGriffinsMom Sat 21-Mar-09 20:49:31

Message withdrawn

salome64 Sat 21-Mar-09 20:54:44

look at last 15mins,

StewieGriffinsMom Sat 21-Mar-09 20:56:22

Message withdrawn

salome64 Sat 21-Mar-09 20:59:27

I like yours best, FAQ. would quite like to put down the leaden sarcasm bazooker for a while.. I think I need a glass of lager water to recover my loss of composure.

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 21:01:37

and don't forget moondog - you're paying for my f*ck up too wink - while giving advice and support to him with regards to his job situationi grin

Chellesgirl Sat 21-Mar-09 21:04:37

I meant make DC primeminister, sorry no get him bk into parliament.durr

And I also said illegal immigrants, not immigrants in general. The ones who stay over here for 6 months and take all the benefits.

Not bringing race into it at all so I dont know how ppl think this thread 'would get racial'.

What are you all doing to help this poor lady if you feel so bad for her? Or me for that fact as Im in the same boat as her? Can you give me a job? Can get a free tutorial class in maths? Id like to be an accountant wink

pooka Sat 21-Mar-09 21:07:52

Am laughing at the idea of David Cameron/conservatives as champions of the poor.

Only laughing in a hollow way.

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 21:08:30

"And I also said illegal immigrants, not immigrants in general. The ones who stay over here for 6 months and take all the benefits."

you are incredibly uninformed. Illegal immigrants do not get benefits.

chegirl Sat 21-Mar-09 21:14:50

That is what I am finding hard to understand about this whole thread. This woman is not moaning. She seems to understand why she is where she is. She doesnt smoke, drink or take drugs. She doesnt think she is hard done by.

She is certainly not fat and even if she were what the F has that got to do with anything. Isnt obesity a bigger problem for those on lower incomes nowdays?

I read the article a few days ago now so I could be wrong, but she doesnt whinge does she?

She is only 24. She could have a good life and give her kids a good life. She may never live in her own house and her kids may never go to university (horrors). When her kids go to school she may well get a job. She might like living where she lives. I loved my flat.

chegirl Sat 21-Mar-09 21:17:08

'take all the benefits' what all of them? Blimey they must be well minted guy!

Why do people still think that illegal immigrants can get loads of money?

Chellesgirl Sat 21-Mar-09 21:19:51

'The UK could be home to almost three-quarters of a million illegal immigrants, a study for London Mayor Boris Johnson suggests'

''Hard argument'

The study into the economic impact of an amnesty for illegal immigrants was carried out by the London School of Economics (LSE).

It estimates that, if a minimum of five years' residence in the UK were needed to qualify, 450,000 illegal immigrants could be granted amnesty.

Mr Johnson suggested an amnesty, which would offer some the right to work officially and eventually gain full citizenship, during the 2008 mayoral election. '

'Mr Johnson said it was a "hard political argument to win" but added: "If people are going to be here and we've chronically failed to kick them out it's morally right that they should contribute in their taxes to the rest of society."

'Chronic failure'

The government is now tightening up border controls, introducing the "e-borders" system which counts people in and out of the country.

But at current rates of deportation, using the LSE figure of 725,000, it would take 34 years and cost almost £9bn to clear the backlog of people who are currently in the UK illegally. '

So your saying nearly 750,000 people in the UK are surviving illegally, on nothing?

moondog Sat 21-Mar-09 21:20:06

I don't mind supporting vulnerable people who are down on their luck FAQ. I have read enouigh of yuor threads over the years to know that your and your dh are resourceful people who don't sit on your arses.

I'm very active in the field of Profound and Multiple Learning Dis. (my prof. field ) and feel very strongly that the mark of a civilsed society is how it treats its vulnerable and needy.

Plump and shovelling in food in front of a large tv is not needy.It's not great,but it's not needy.

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 21:20:30

illegral immigrants get no money off the state - they may get money if they find an unscrupulous employer to employ them - but chances are it'll be at some horrendously low pay like £2hr.

FairLadyRantALot Sat 21-Mar-09 21:21:31

Stewie...I think there is a mn prob tonight....I have been having problems....

MD, well...whilst there are, of course loving fathers who will continue to act responsibly towards their children, many seem to forget there responsibilities after splitting with the Kids own father was of that kind....he was well-educated and in the money.....but he was still an arse...simple as that....

I really think that judgements on the poverty issue and if this lady is or isn't living in poverty really don't help the broader issue....I think it is necessary to look at this issue in the long term and accept that changes ill be slo....we have to except that people will make their own choices, right or wrong, that which choices people make depend on a multitude of factors, a lot are, I assume,of social-cultural nature...

hen growing up and going to school we were talking in school about the situation in 3rd World countries...and looked at what and what doesn't work, and the main issue was that if you give people food, they will eat the day, if you give people the opportunity to gro their own, etc...they will eat and live....and I know that a sogan similar to this is still used by a charity for 3rd world aid, because it is true....and I think that it is true in a wider sense for every kind of poverty-situation.
Education, slowly changing social-cultural attitudes and thinking, etc...will change things, I would think....but it would be a slow process....!
I do believe that there is a benefit expectation in some parts of society, and I think it is that born and raised in the benefit trap can make it a major factor towards the problem....but I do think there is still a chance to change that idea how though, I do admit....! It would have to be done very carefully in order to protect those that truely do depend on benefits for the reasons that benefits were invented, iykwim....!
Not sure I am making sense....tbh...

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 21:22:23

yes they could be given the right to work, doesn't mean they'll find a job, and if my DH's visa was anything to go by they won't be able to claim benefits for at LEAST a year after being granted permission to stay here,

moondog Sat 21-Mar-09 21:22:51

I was talking to some Iranian guys this afternoon. (They said they were Turks initially but having lived in Turkey I sussed they weren't and they came clean).They were selling olives and baklava and other stuff from a stall in a tiny Welsh market town.
We had a looong conversation about immigration and Iran and benefits and so on. These guys were great.I've no problem with having people around like this-illegal or not. They work and support themselves and put the idle feckless Welsh youth to shame.

FAQinglovely Sat 21-Mar-09 21:24:05

and hell moondog - I saw some very large people shoveling food into their mouths who were definitely living in poverty when I was in Zim. Body ize and happening to have food to shovel into your mouth are not linked to poverty (by and large)

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