to think that the nursery should help dd

[DelGirl]

when she has been to the toilet?

dd is 3.6 and is not yet able to wipe her bottom clean enough after going to the loo so I always help her after she's done a poo.

A few times since she changed key worker, she's come home with dirty knickers. I have mentioned it a couple of times and told dd that she must tell her key worker when she needs help with wiping but it's still happening. It is important, not least as dd has kidney reflux and can get uti's.

Do I mention it again or should dd now be at the stage where she shjould be able to do it for herself? She goes to school next Sept and will no doubt have cracked it by then.

thanks

[falcon]

I've worked in a few nurseries and we were never allowed to do this for the child. They were expected to be self sufficient in this regard, of course there were other reasons for not being able to do so.

[DelGirl]

oh, ok but what did you do for younger children? Presumably, you were able to change nappies, what's the difference apart from age?

[mooog]

I do know that nurseries dont do this, so why dont you try giving her the little wipes to take with her. You can buy little packs of ten or a big pack and just put one in a little plastic purse so he can take it to the loo with her. Nice clean bum then.

[mooog]

Sorry I mean she.

[milou2]

I think the workers should check rather than put the blame/responsibility on such a little child. They are acting in the place of a parent and a parent checks without being asked to because they know how important it is for a child to feel cared for and clean. And it is important for the parent to know the child is clean and cared for.

Ask them whether they would want that low level of care if you were looking after their little child. I'm shocked at their attitude.

[wonderstuff]

Why can't nurseries do this? They change nappies? Poor dd, is madness not helping her I dont think yabu

[BlameItOnTheBogey]

Really falcon? DS starts nursery next year at the ripe age of nine months - no way he will be self sufficient. How is this any different? By school age, I think children should be able to do this but OP's dd is not yet 4 and surely this is part and parcel of what nursery care is about?

OP - YANBU, especially given the medical issue. I'd raise it again.

[DelGirl]

She's been in the same nursery for 1.5 years and we've never had this problem before. I know they do help with toilet training etc and where gloves etc but with her previous key worker, I never had this problem. Is it reasonable to expect dd to be able to do it now then?

[falcon]

Only one of the nurseries I worked for took babies and yes age was the difference. Babies clearly cannot take care of their own changing and wiping so it was a necessity to change them, a 3 year old was thought to be able to do so and expected to do so.

[DelGirl]

'wear' not where

[DelGirl]

I'm going to have to say something for now and just work on her wiping skills then thanks

[falcon]

Yes really. A 9 month is just a baby so that's a very different matter, see post above.

I'm not even saying I agree with the policy though I wouldn't have been very comfortable with doing this for an older child who wasn't mine.

I think it's partly because it's easier for the staff not to, it'd mean leaving the child, and going to get gloves if they weren't nearby. But as I've mentioned it's also to protect both carer and child.

[DelGirl]

rediculous, sorry and thats not a dig at you at all falcon but it is.

[falcon]

If they are normally willing to help with toilet training then it might be a different matter.

I've only worked in one nursery which would accept children of 3 who weren't toilet trained, so if your nursery is one that's willing to help with the process then I would have words with them, as learning to wipe correctly is part of that process and they could help her.

[pinkblossom]

I think that unless the child asks for help, the nursery staff assume that they can manage on their own. However, maybe you should mention it to her keyworker to keep an eye on her.

[wonderstuff]

So its a child protection issue, rather than health and safety, I'm with you DelGirl, pc gone mad!!

[Josie3]

I'd play the medical card.

[ecoworrier]

Nurseries HAVE to accept children who aren't toilet-trained, it's now part of anti-discriminatory laws.

At our playgroup, most children can and do manage, but some need help, so we give help. Not exactly rocket-science.

However, I agree that staff may not realise it is an issue - if a child goes into the loo alone and doesn't ask for help, no-one will know any different.

Perhaps ask the nursery if they have wipes or similar if that makes it easier than just dry loo roll. And yes, work on those skills at home!

[LaMonsterWeaselwolf]

I reckon it's part of her having to ask. (as part of child protection) If her keyworker has changed and she hasn't especially bonded with the new one she may just be too shy to ask somebody.

If she's running risk of infection though, tell them that's what's happening and ask them to check, or remind her to ask them afterwards when she goes so she gets into the habit.

[mishymoo]

My DS was 3 in July and still can't wipe his own bum. I would be absolutely livid if his nursery refused to help him! I know for a fact they would help him if need be, but my DS will not poo at nursery and saves it all for me at home. I guess I need to start teaching him to clean himself.

[mishymoo]

Sorry, meant to add that you do need to speak to them again and remind them of her kidney reflux.

[bozza]

I think 3 is the age where children should start being encouraged to have a go at wiping but may still need some help sometimes. And I wiped 3 4yo bottoms on Monday (my DDs and two of her friends who took it upon themselves to do poos at my house while wearing princess dresses ). It has to be done sometimes. And surely keeping the disposable gloves by the toilet is not rocket science.

[DelGirl]

I spoke to her previous key worker today as I couldn't get to see her current one. I have asked the current one to help her. The gloves/wipes etc are all in the toilets by the loo so easy to hand. DD does wipe her bottom, but after a poo, I always use a wipe. More often than not it's still a bit dirty. She does try bless her.

The previous key worker said there wasn't a policy not too help iyswim. I'll give it a few more days and see what happens. I've mentioned if she can change her key worker as the one she had before is in a different room but there is another one who she seems to have bonded better with than her cuurent one. confused???

thanks for your input

[bozza]

TBH I would stop using the wipes. Get her to use toilet roll, then you go over it with toilet roll. This will gradually get her used to real life and school where there are no wipes.

[rolledhedgehog]

DD's pre-school will happily wipe bums. It is more of a health and safety issue cleaning DD after she tries to wipe her bum after a poo! DS did not learn to manage wiping his bum until the summer holidays before starting school.