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To hate materialism/western world and want to live with a remote tribe

(262 Posts)
roseability Thu 16-Oct-08 22:50:45

Chilrearing seems to be so hard and everyone so unhappy

We must have gone wrong somewhere?

I personally blame capitalism, elitism and modern living/parenting

The thread about women expecting exspensive gifts for giving birth is an example

In some traditional tribes people fulfil their natural purpose and experience true happiness. Mothering is cherised and supported by the community.

Their children seem happier and are less demanding.

They don't lust after diamond rings or push their LOs into hundreds of activities in order to make them better, bigger, stronger.

Just a thought

Lauriefairycake Thu 16-Oct-08 22:52:57

of course it's not unreasonable to hate materialism. Read Affluenza and the Selfish Capitalist by Oliver James if you want to be really convinced.

I wouldn't want to live with a remote tribe though. I think we're extraordinarily lucky to live in this country, at this time, in this life.

Lauriefairycake Thu 16-Oct-08 22:53:40

make your own tribe in your own family

mabanana Thu 16-Oct-08 22:57:07

I have to say, I think your post is utter rose-tinted bollocks. Thanks to not living in a remote tribe I and my children are alive. I wouldn't have survived childbirth unless I lived in a modern society. My daughter isn't going to have her clitoris cut off with a rusty blade and have her vagina sewn up. My son isn't going to have his face cut and scarred, and I'm not going to have to sleep on a hard floor, do hard physical work until I die and be raped on my 'wedding night' by a total stranger who will have the right to demand sex when he likes and never kiss me or help me in any way, and who I will have to obey or be beaten by. I think a life in which my family are alive, dd does Saturday morning ballet class and I buy the odd frock is bloody bliss, and I am grateful every day for it.

expatinscotland Thu 16-Oct-08 22:58:12

spot on, mabanana.

catsmother Thu 16-Oct-08 22:59:39

Not all "remote tribes" are such as you describe Mabanana.

Mind you, I'd miss books ..... though if Bruce Parry agreed to come with me I might consider it.

stitch Thu 16-Oct-08 23:00:59

as the second child of someone who had an emergency caesaerian with her first, when emergency c sections literallymeant life or death of both the mother and the child (they actually lost elder siblings heartbeat), i know i wouldnt be alive if it wasnt for modern medicine
whist tribal life sounds completely wonderful. i wouldnt exist, so no point yearning fo rit

roseability Thu 16-Oct-08 23:02:37

good points but I did specify some tribes

not all of them practice female circumcision/sexual violence etc

Of course our western tribe is free from violence and sexual bullying

Our children might grow up free from such things but will probably be afflicted by other maladies of western living

mabanana Thu 16-Oct-08 23:02:52

Thanks! I have to say, sitting in the sunshine this gorgeous autumn morning drinking a cappuccino outside a friendly cafe, with people saying hello as they walked past, I felt very happy indeed. I am happy. I'm not rich, one of my kids has a disability, I have the usual money worries and stuff, but I have some friends, nice neighbours, a roof over my head, lovely children who love me, a dh ditto, good food to eat and the odd glass of wine, I count my blessings and I'm happy most of the time. You don't have to be materialistic and greedy.

mabanana Thu 16-Oct-08 23:04:08

My kids would be dead or wouldn't exist (due to my being dead) if I lived a remote tribe. Forgive me for not being overly enthusiastic about the prospect.

singingtree Thu 16-Oct-08 23:04:24

Has anyone read the good women of china? There's a chapter in there about a tribe in the mountains that are SO poor that the girls take it in turns to wear their one set of clothes. Those whose turn it isn't sit in the cave all day. Their mothers are brutally treated by the men, iirc they are shared by several of them. They also use cactus leaves for sanitary towels.

No thanks

expatinscotland Thu 16-Oct-08 23:04:32

ever been camping or trekking, for a llooooonnngg time, in a place where there is no running water or electricity? where medical help is far away - as in, it's a distinct possibility you will die if you get into a medical emergency? where the water you can get isn't clean and has to be purified and even then, you can expect to pick up intestinal nasties from time to time? where the weather isn't always warm?

i have, and whilst it was a tremendous experience every time, man was i ever grateful for a hot shower and a glass of tap water and my dentist a phone call away.

roseability Thu 16-Oct-08 23:04:48

I just wanted a discussion, no need to mention men's testicles

combustiblelemon Thu 16-Oct-08 23:05:27

Capitalism bad. Antibiotics, indoor plumbing and low numbers of deaths during childbirth good.

Acinonyx Thu 16-Oct-08 23:05:29

Cultural oddities aside, general health and child mortality are somewhat depressing in all remote tribes.

I can't help but think I'd be rather bored foraging all day.

Not that modern living is an ideal - but some sort of compromise might be interesting.

roseability Thu 16-Oct-08 23:08:00

Or maybe some of the philosophy behind some tribal living could/should be injected back into our society

Why is there so much depression, family problems, mental health issues if our society is so great?

mabanana Thu 16-Oct-08 23:08:24

If anyone can find me a remote tribe with good plumbing, proper medical care, clean water, good cooking facilities, feminism, cappuccinos, comfy beds and chairs and novels, I'll consider it. If not, then nah, I'll pass, ta.

expatinscotland Thu 16-Oct-08 23:08:35

flush toilets are brilliant things!

just the amount of work that goes into making the slightest thing - getting kindling for the fire, drawing water and transporting it to your site, purifying it (a slow process), cooking, washing up (a nightmare), getting to sleep (noisy and uncomfortable), having a wash, etc.

your entire day is occupied with the most banal tasks you completely took for granted.

true, it's almost meditative in that you don't have time to think or over-analyse much, but it gets OLD fast.

expatinscotland Thu 16-Oct-08 23:10:13

haahaaaa, ma. our landlords are living in Uganda just now, where he is training primary school teachers for VSO. and, in Ugandan terms and as British, they have a pretty cush life.

still no hot water at all and all water must be purified, have to iron everything because a parasite gets into clothes drying on lines, malaria-carrying mosquitos and the like.

Tryharder Thu 16-Oct-08 23:10:19

Interesting.

I used to live in West Africa (DP is from there). IME, the children there are generally much, much better behaved and much less demanding. When we visit, DS1 always embarrasses me by being demanding and "loud" whereas kids there are seen and not heard.

Children there have freedom from a much younger age and once they are 4 or 5 are often expected pretty much to see to themselves. Babies however are cossetted from the onset and are either being cuddled, bfed or tied to someone's back and the idea of a routine for a baby would be seen as weird.

As for whether children there are happier? Difficult to say. It is not uncommon for children there to be looked after by persons other than their parents which in itself causes problems. There are also problems created by overly large families, polygamy and of course poverty and lack of education, good food and medical care.

Certainly there is little or no obsession with 'parenting' as a skill. Smacking is normal. I can remember my next door neighbour there going to the UK to study for a while and coming back complaining that he wasnt allowed to beat his (very well behaved) children in the UK.

Lauriefairycake Thu 16-Oct-08 23:11:47

our society is great, we just have more access to more information now so we think it's much worse that it is

Did you not watch that series on Georgian England, much more violent and much more likely to be stabbed back then. Much more crime, much more dangerous in general, coupled with a lovely dose of syphilis and death around 40.

This golden time never existed.

roseability Thu 16-Oct-08 23:13:44

maybe for someone used to western living expat

believe it or not some tribes don't view work as work in the same way we do.

I base my views mainly on the continuum concept by Jean Liedloff

I am pregnant with number 2 and don't wish to go through the struggles (PND) I did with number 1. Maybe more community living would have helped

LadyLaGore Thu 16-Oct-08 23:13:51

what makes you think that depression, family problems, mental health issues dont occur in 'remote tribes'?

SuperSillyus Thu 16-Oct-08 23:14:07

I think what me can miss is living 'in community.' In our society people can be lying in their house dead for two weeks before anyone realises.
But on the other hand in communities/extended families there isn't much privacy.

Overmydeadbody Thu 16-Oct-08 23:14:55

roseability you are seeing it all through rose tinted glasses.
If you lived in a remote tribe you would spend all your time and energy making sure your basic needs where met you wouldn't have time to feel anything or actually enjoy life in the way we have become accustomed.

You would be living hand to mouth.

I'm with expat on this one. I've been there, done that, and I like my toilet to flush and my water to boil quickly.

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