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To think that if a non English speaking child can have an interpreter funded and a SEN child can have TA support a child who has a life threatening medical conditiong should get support.

(35 Posts)
islandofsodor Tue 23-Sep-08 11:49:44

Someone I know had a phone call a couple of days before their ds was due to start a state nursery school to say the council wouldnt fund any 1-2-1 carer time so he couldn't start nursery. They say they only provide funding support for educational, not medical needs.

He has a medical condition which means he has just 3 minutes to live if his line which keeps him alive becomes accidentally unattached. GOSH say that all the other children in the country with this condition get this support. The school say he needs around 23 hours of funded time. The council won't pay for it.

Also if he has a toileting accident the school will not change him but wait til his mum arrives. I know this is illegal but they are arguinng that they won't.

Imnotok Tue 23-Sep-08 11:53:28

YANBU angry

edam Tue 23-Sep-08 11:58:42

Bloody hell, Sodor, that's appalling. I think if I was your friend, I'd go straight to the local paper. And then I'd ask the GOSH consultant to write to the director of children's services at the council (it's usually one person for both education and SS these days). AND get on to my MP and councillor.

TheFallenMadonna Tue 23-Sep-08 12:00:23

Is it different in nursery compared to compulsory school? Does he have a statement?

KatieDD Tue 23-Sep-08 12:01:37

That's disgraceful. I hope it gets resolved.

islandofsodor Tue 23-Sep-08 12:03:17

The council won't give him a statement on medical grounds only on educational grounds and he doesn;t have educational issues. I'm assuming this will continue into school as well.

They have gone to the paper, he was on the front page last week bless him. The council tried to block the story!!

edam Tue 23-Sep-08 12:13:05

Gits. Suggest they get onto GOSH, MP and councillor. And any relevant medical charities - they often have tons of info about your rights.

edam Tue 23-Sep-08 12:14:31

Doesn't 'being dead if no-one checks my line' count as an educational issue? Surely that would interrupt his education? angry

junkcollector Tue 23-Sep-08 12:14:33

That's ridiculous. How can the say it's not an educational issue? His learning will most definitely be affected without support!

TotalChaos Tue 23-Sep-08 12:16:05

that's appalling. tell her to get in touch with ipsea or sos sen (both 2 independent charities that are highly rated for advising parents about getting statements for their kids).

there may be some useful caselaw info relevant to this situation on www.ipsea.org.uk

hecate Tue 23-Sep-08 12:17:12

Of course it should be addressed. I can't believe they won't help him, that's outrageous! She can argue that without the support required to enable him to attend school, he has no access to education, which is illegal. I agree she needs to go public!

BalloonSlayer Tue 23-Sep-08 12:17:52

I do know of a sort of similar situation.

The child has a 1 to 1 helper in school, but at nursery one of the family had to be there in case of emergency. They were.

islandofsodor Tue 23-Sep-08 12:22:38

I'm going to make a note of those two organisations TotalChaos.

The thing is in this area children go to full time nursery the Setpember after they are 3. Parents can opt out but few do. It's a bit like reception isn't compulsory but vitually every child goes. So if the council make the decision to have this policy, they should provide the appropriate support.

He is apparently a "test case" in this area.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 23-Sep-08 12:24:36

Our council will only give 12 hours of 1:1 support for educational needs maximum, so I suspect 23 hours at nursery level will be unrealistic.

The LEA have to provide a suitable education by law. If they can't provide a safe environment for the child then they are not providing a suitable education so they will need to set out how they will meet his educational needs.

A complaint letter, a threat to go to the local govt ombudsment can help.

Agree about IPSEA. I've written a bit about nappies here It sounds as if she already knows this but the link it useful as it's a govt link.

It's not that unsual (in fact I would say it is normal) to have these sorts of situations even with educational needs. The councils first offer when our son started school was unsafe and inappropriate. They did back down.

BalloonSlayer Tue 23-Sep-08 12:25:57

Re your OP, IOS. Do non english speaking children get funded interpreters, and the other example you mentioned, at nursery in your area?

I am not saying YABU, I actually agree that the child should have a helper. But I think your title is a little misleading as it implies you are talking about mainstream school.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 23-Sep-08 12:26:21

Councils hate cases being taken to the local govt ombudsmen because they get recorded.

Asking them how they are going to provide 'a suitable education' for the child might work. The should know that that's their legal duty. A suitable education will involve keeping the child safe.

BalloonSlayer Tue 23-Sep-08 12:27:08

Augh, I didn't mean mainstream school, I meant - what did I mean? - actual school rather than nursery.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 23-Sep-08 12:29:05

"Our council will only give 12 hours of 1:1 support for educational needs maximum, so I suspect 23 hours at nursery level will be unrealistic. "

Sorry that should be 12 hours maximum at nursery (although I did manage to beat them up to 15, but they were very pissed off).

IPSEA definitely. I'm not sure how much legal protection there is for medical needs - maybe none- for example if you want to get SALT you have to get it noted in the statement as an educational need or anything that is written about it is worthless. There have been test cases involving OT being an educational need for a child with severe CP. Details on the IPSEA website.

islandofsodor Tue 23-Sep-08 12:29:12

Ballon, I was told by the child's family that yes, in this area in nursery schools in this area children do get interpreters etc. if needed.

Obviously that is only hearsay, my children are in independant education so I don't have any dealings with state education myself.

Megglevache Tue 23-Sep-08 12:30:21

That is awful.

islandofsodor Tue 23-Sep-08 12:30:50

They push VERY heavily for all 3 year olds to be in full time nursery. They state that they are all entitled to a place in the same way as they are entitled to a reception place. I know this is perhaps unusual, other councils only provide 5 sessions per week via the voucher scheme.

StewieGriffinsMom Tue 23-Sep-08 12:35:46

Message withdrawn

islandofsodor Tue 23-Sep-08 12:43:40

There looks an awful lot of info in that IPSEA website. I think the best thing is for me to give the details to the family, they may even have their details already, though I suspect not. The newspaper article ruffled some feathers in the council from what I gather. They are not publicity hungry as such just using it as a way of hopefully getting somone to listen

It is the medical/educational thing that seems the real biggy, as jimjams says it looks like there may not be protection for medical needs.

They just want their son to be able to access the same facilities as other children in the area.

islandofsodor Tue 23-Sep-08 12:46:14

Your continence link by the way is the same one as I already printed out to give to them but this was before the phone call to say he couldn't start at all.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 23-Sep-08 12:51:15

IPSEA I think is an English/Welsh advice service. I'm not sure they cover Scotland if you're there or NI.

Statements aren't really suitable for medical needs as anything listed as a medical need can just be ignored anyway. i think the family will either somehow need to get this seen an educational need (tricky) or use the LEA's legal responsibility to provide a suitable education, which will obviously involve keeping the child alive!

In other areas is it health or education that pay for the support? Is the support needed ongoing, or just if the line become unattached (in which case could teachers/TA's be trained). Are there any schools that have an onsite school nurse for example? DS1's school does because so many of the children have medical needs, but it's a special school so not really comparable.

Also what will happen when the support worker is off sick? When ds1 was in mainstream he had to stay at home if his TA was off or on a course.

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