Settlement Agreement

[fruityloopy]

Looking for a bit of help please..
How much can I ask for/expect to agree in a settlement agreement with my employer?
Worked for them for 5yrs, due to various reasons my manager has raised issues with my performance, some justifiable, some not (in my opinion) HR have not been great at handling the situation. My Mum died 6 months ago & therefore I think they’re aware of how they’ve not handled this well & hence now how we’re due to have a conversation about reaching an agreement.
I’m extremely anxious, stressed & worried about being an unemployed 48yr old single parent & feel I need some time out before starting to reapply for jobs therefore thinking could I reasonably ask for 6 months pay?

[Queenoftheflumps02]

Op, firstly what is your notice period? What evidence do you have that your employer had ' handled" your bereavement wrongly? What feedback have you been given about your performance? Does your employment contract say anything about payment in lieu of notice?

When negotiating severance it help your position if you can prove some "wrong doing" on your employers part. For instance was your performance good until your suffered bereavement? Did you manager tell you of the concerns he had and put support in place to help you improve. Do you have any documentation where your performance was discussed, or your raised with employer issues you were having. Any notes you made about conversations with HR or your manager? Make sure to build as solid a case as you can, so when you make your request you can "justify" why you are asking for x amount.

You are looking for your employer to decide it is easier for them to pay you an agreed, acceptable severance than for you to pursue any legal routes.

Good luck and I very sorry about your mum.

[fruityloopy]

Thank you.
It’s a 2 months notice period & yes there is something about payment in lieu.
My boss is in agreement with me that it’s not been handled well. Not sure if that helps?
I think my biggest grievance is starting a performance improvement programme with the comment ‘you will however not improve & wont have a role in this team’ isn’t how it should be handled?
I was also strongly & actively encouraged to apply for alternative role with almost the promise of getting it - as in someone from our team has to join that team scenario & then didn’t get role (which was a role I’d done previously)
I’ve lots of correspondence with HR stating that I don’t think it’s a fair process.

[caketiger]

As part of the settlement they sometimes pay towards a solicitor fee for you so you can get it checked out. Usual settlements I see can be between one and three months pay. With an agreed reference.

[Jizzle]

I know it is difficult OP, but you almost have to remove yourself from the situation emotionally to see if you think you have a case.

From an employers perspective, they would generally only pay out a severance if they believe they actually did something wrong enough that a tribunal would find them guilty. Claiming this at a tribunal is difficult and would need to be pretty clear and obvious for you to win.

As such, do you think they actually have a serious case to answer? As in, not just handled things badly, or overlooked you for new roles etc, but actually did something discriminatory or illegal? This would require quite a bit of evidence and may be hard to prove.

If they think there is a risk they might be found guilty then yes, 6/9/12 months pay is probably about right. If they don't think they have a case to answer they may still be inclined to pay you off just to make the problem go away, but in those type of situations i would be surprised if it goes much higher than 2 months pay.

I hope you can reach an agreement, and that waiting for it to play out isn't too stressful for you.

[HarrietsChariot]

Normally you'd expect to get 6-8 weeks pay in these circumstances. There's nothing to stop you going in asking for six months but they probably have a MUCH lower figure in mind. If possible get them to give their offer first, then try to beat them up a little.

If you'd been unfairly or constructively dismissed, the average payout would be a lot less than six months pay.

Aim high, but don't count on getting anything until the agreement has been signed.

[Queenoftheflumps02]

OP, what time periods did your employer's put in your performance plan and have you completed this? Have you passed through all stages of their dismissal process including appeals or are your employer's circumventing this and moving towards a compromise agreement? As someone correctly said this will include a payment for a solicitor to make sure the agreement is fair.

If your employer is moving towards a compromise agreement, then you have a little more negotiating power as your employer has signalled they would like you to leave with minimum fuss.

As I said the real key is building a factual argument, with evidence of any failings on the part of your employer. Do you have your manager's comment anywhere in writing or did you take contemporaneous notes of the meeting? Do have a union rep or a colleague who would be willing to assist you in preparing your case and to attend the meeting with you? The other way to proceed is to see what your employer is offering and negotiate up from there, this does have its issues, but does give you an idea of where their thinking is.

In terms of negotiating, remember 2 months is your notice and they have to either make you work this or PILON it.

[Buckydoesafart]

I'd suggest you start with a year's salary in mind as you don't know how long it will take you to find another job.

I have negotiated some settlement agreements after 5 years services and I would suggest that is where you start. Also ensure you have an agreed reference and make sure they include enough money to pay your solicitor (as you would need to take independent advice for the agreement - message me if you would like a recommendation for one.)

Have you raised a grievance about the process and failings? Also, ensure you agree that these chats are 'off the record' and you have enough time to discuss with someone independent.

[fruityloopy]

Thanks all, it’s been/still is such a anxiety inducing/stressful time. Appreciate the help & suggestions.
Yes I believe from what I’ve read I would be entitled to a solicitor.
I would say that it’s probably more a case of them wanting ‘the problem - me!’ to go away rather than me having a strong case.
I’m about half way through the process hence why I was thinking they would still have to pay me for 2 months if I continue on it, then the PILON then, it was actually my manager that suggested it, I could - due to all the stress this is causing me (though doesn’t sit comfortably with me actually doing it) probably quite easily go & get myself signed off sick and this would mean 3 months pay before the process could continue.. hence why I was thinking 6mths could be reasonable.
We do reps that can assist but I feel quite like this is just really a bit personal & I’d rather just ‘get on with it’ myself so to speak - I guess asking a bunch of strangers is easier! Thanks again.

[Peace43]

If I want someone out then I really want to avoid the worst of the hassle and tribunal. Ask for 6 months. I’d probably negotiate you down to 4 or 5 if I could (or just pay you off if you were enough of a headache for me).

[fruityloopy]

A year would be potentially life changing, I never thought of going that high, I just want to be fair & reasonable & protect myself sufficiently to cover my living costs for a short time & have a bit of time regain my confidence & some self worth after they’ve knocked it to pieces.

[IntermittentParps]

I came to a settlement agreement with an old employer, albeit to do with constructive dismissal/changes to ts & cs rather than performance. I had the help of a solicitor and she recommended asking for 8 months' pay, which I did and got. She said that was a usual/common amount.
Good luck!

[baggingareaunattended]

Ask for high go high, They will offer less then renegotiate more. They normally allocate an amount for the solicitor and sometimes it comes in at just a little bit over that, maybe £30 £40 you might have to pay yourself. But you do the negotiating the solicitor just really write the agreement gives you some advice. They may say what you are asking is too high, but it's your choice. I had my annual train ticket loan written off as part of a settlement. So if there's any courses you have done that you would need to pay back ensure they are written off. Good luck OP, certainly site your age concerns for new employment when asking for the deal.

[IntermittentParps]

They normally allocate an amount for the solicitor
Yes, forgot that; for me, the figure was 8 months' pay and all my solicitor's fees paid. I did all the talking and writing emails to them though; it would have cost more if I'd asked her to do all that, and I don't know if in that case my employer would have only covered a certain % or amount of fees.

[FrangipaniBlue]

I would go in with 1 months pay for each year of service plus PILON so that would make it 7 months?

Also, if you are eligible for any bonus payments tell them you want it added to severance pay so that it's non taxable.

By law a severance agreement has to be witnessed by a solicitor so absolutely your employer should pay for one of your choosing.

Good luck OP!

[fruityloopy]

All this advice is so appreciated, helping me feel slightly more confident about such a glum situation. My boss was actually in tears (of frustration at the situation) herself over the fact no one got back to me after an internal interview - would you mention something like that? I know she’s spoken also to her boss.

[Clarinet1]

Sorry to hear that you’re going through this OP. I’ve had some ups and downs in the workplace myself. Don’t forget that you should get paid
for any annual leave accrued but not taken. Also consider what arrangements there should be for any other perks such as any staff discounts (you may be able to argue that these should continue for a certain length of time) and especially a company car if you have one, Good luck.

[Alonelonelyloner]

There is very little information above, but what is their bereavement policy? You don't go into detail about how it was badly handled, but other than a couple of days off paid for instance, what are they supposed to do? If you were already being performance managed when you lost your mother, have you achieved everything that was on there or did it stall due to your loss?

[bewilderedhedgehog]

Hi OP. Settlement agreement is usually tax free, and I think they must pay your legal costs (not entirely sure but I think so). I would go for 6 months as well. Also do you have enough evidence for an employment tribunal? your employer is likely to want to avoid that. ensure you have everything in writing. Good luck with it

[HundredMilesAnHour]

I think there are some important facts missing before you can decide what settlement offer you propose to them. Were you being performance managed before your Mum died or did this only start afterwards? How severe were the issues that you agreed were true?

I appreciate you don't want to give too much away on a forum but this (and other) information can be significant in deciding how strong your case is. You need to talk to an employment lawyer (most will give you 30 mins/intro for free) about if you have a case or not.

[fruityloopy]

Thanks again! Yes my performance was being monitored prior to Mums death but in hindsight boss has admitted she didn’t give much support.
The issues regarding performance are minimal - and things I’ve said I’m not great at such as docusgining everything.

[HundredMilesAnHour]

@fruityloopy

Thanks again! Yes my performance was being monitored prior to Mums death but in hindsight boss has admitted she didn’t give much support.
The issues regarding performance are minimal - and things I’ve said I’m not great at such as docusgining everything.

This doesn't make sense. Why were they performance managing you if the performance issues were "minimal"?

[Alwayscheerful]

Following

[MrsPinkCock]

Hi OP - I’m an employment lawyer and there’s a lot of misinformation on this thread.

Firstly, settlement agreements are not routinely tax free - only any ex gratia element. The first two months or equivalent will be taxable as it’s treated as notice pay.

Secondly, your employer will contribute towards your legal fees in getting advice on the agreement (legal advice is required to make it legally binding). I’ve only ever once in 15 years seen a settlement agreement where the employer didn’t want to pay any legal costs and I deal with them daily.

I would suggest it could be worth paying extra for your lawyer to negotiate the payment on your behalf - the minimum you should expect is around five months’ pay, as it would take 3-6 months to undertake a fair capability process, plus 2 months notice on top (so 5-8 months’ pay). You’re also entitled to accrued holiday pay (taxed).

And that’s assuming they have a solid legal case to dismiss. If they don’t, you should be looking for more on top to represent unfair dismissal compensation (which depending on your age could be an extra 5 weeks gross pay as a basic award, a payment for loss of statutory rights and compensation for the amount of time it will take you to find another job).

I don’t know your circumstances but as a ballpark, 6 months is often a reasonable figure to go for, which means you need to be asking for more so there’s room for them to negotiate down. Don’t go in too low.

[fruityloopy]

Thanks again for all the infomation. Sorry I wasn’t clear - I actually wasn’t on the improvement process prior to my Mums death, some of my weaknesses that they are using now to build the case were highlighted at the time of her death. In hindsight, I tried hard to continue with my role (during a stressful time) whilst also caring for my Mum & her death was quite sudden & unexpected, so I think it all got a bit overwhelming. I didn’t complete some important paperwork & some customers were left in the lurch.
I think they are aware there should have been better support in place prior to Mum dying though as I had expressed a lot of concerns with the stress I was under. I don’t think the case is solid enough for dismissal as I think there are other roles within the organisation that I could do well & they have said that they still believe I have a lot to offer the business (and maybe they just say that to make it better for me). I feel however as there is no guarantee of this I need to look at securing a way out sooner rather than having it drag on then hopefully I can take a breather, regain my confidence & find something else.

[fruityloopy]

I just wanted to post to say thank you to all that commented & offered advise.
I had a meeting & was offered 3 months gross salary, said no but thank you. Went back & asked for 7 months, they’ve come back with 6 months net salary. Am feeling grateful & relieved. So appreciate the responses that I wasn’t being unreasonable. Before I accept it would it be unreasonable to ask them if I can keep my laptop? I was due to be upgraded & obviously they’d wipe work server but it would be helpful to me right now.