A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

(1000 Posts)
Biber Tue 18-May-21 09:59:08

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP’s posts: |
UhtredRagnarson Tue 18-May-21 10:02:49

Only got as far as the toilet point. People aren’t opposed to trans people using the toilet of the opposites sex. They’re opposed to anyone using the toilet of the opposite sex. It’s not a trans issue. Let’s stop pretending it is.

MaxNormal Tue 18-May-21 10:05:39

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you

The experience of women, right there.

UhtredRagnarson Tue 18-May-21 10:06:49

MaxNormal

*To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you*

The experience of women, right there.

Yep

TeenMinusTests Tue 18-May-21 10:06:57

MaxNormal

*To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you*

The experience of women, right there.

Starting with the rights to single sex toilets, DV shelters, hospital wards, sport.

LigPatin Tue 18-May-21 10:07:14

Nothing like a bit of patronisation for a Tuesday morning.

The issue isn't that people don't want trans people in sex segregated spaces.
It's that there are people pretending to be trans who have a different agenda.

We need to find a way to protect everybody - transpeople and non transpeople alike.

grapewine Tue 18-May-21 10:07:41

MaxNormal

*To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you*

The experience of women, right there.

Spot on.

Advertisement

LigPatin Tue 18-May-21 10:07:53

MaxNormal

*To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you*

The experience of women, right there.

This in spades.

Babdoc Tue 18-May-21 10:08:38

Toilets, sports, prisons, refuges and changing rooms are divided by sex, not “gender identity”.
For the protection of women’s rights to safety, dignity and privacy.
Trans people have the same rights as everyone else. They do not have the additional right to trample on women’s rights.

titchy Tue 18-May-21 10:09:07

I'm confused OP - you seem to be labouring under the delusion that women want to deny transwomen access to the loo. If that's what you've been told I'm afraid you are very very wrong. No one wants that. Just use the loo designed for your biological sex that's all!

HTH.

ChiefBabySniffer Tue 18-May-21 10:11:32

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

financialrecovery Tue 18-May-21 10:12:21

*The issue isn't that people don't want trans people in sex segregated spaces.
It's that there are people pretending to be trans who have a different agenda*

The thing I don't get about this is that if you wanted to invade a toilet or changing room to attack or ogle women, surely it would be easier just to don a hi vis and a cloth and pretend to be a cleaner, than pretend to be trans?

I think that's why it feels anti trans to me. The suggestion that trans people would take advantage of this. I can see the point in prisons for example. But in public anybody can walk in to a women's toilet. Nobody stops you. Why are trans targeted?

financialrecovery Tue 18-May-21 10:13:13

@titchy if somebody wants to use the loo corresponding with their gender I'm good with that.

OwlBeThere Tue 18-May-21 10:13:14

MaxNormal

*To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you*

The experience of women, right there.

So if that’s also the experience Of trans people maybe more empathy for each other is what’s needed.

But I fear you’re wasting your breath on mumsnet OP. Most people here seem to think transwomen are all rapists and transmen are women who just want to be validated.

MichelleScarn Tue 18-May-21 10:13:31

MaxNormal

*To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you*

The experience of women, right there.

Absolutely spot on.

financialrecovery Tue 18-May-21 10:15:26

Also we aren't discussing women's rights. She was discussing trans.

It's like discussing racism and saying "what about white people?"

Well yes but this isn't the experience we're discussing. Nobody is saying they aren't important and don't experience problems. But the focus needs to be on solely trans problems at times.

Jillly Tue 18-May-21 10:16:06

Toilets are segregated by sex. You are free to use the public toilets that correspond to your sex..you know what sex you are, other people know what sex you are, babies children and even dogs know what sex you are..

HappyHappyHippocampus Tue 18-May-21 10:16:18

* To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you*

Have we forgotten about women then? This has been women’s lives since the dawn of time. Don’t teach us how to suck eggs, we wrote the fucking book.

I can’t say I’m transphobic. There’s trans people in my life that I manage to co-exist with very nicely and care about very deeply but cut the patronising bullshit. I know you’re not speaking for them because they’d be horrified at this statement considering your audience.

FOJN Tue 18-May-21 10:16:19

You managed to write a short essay about International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia but don't mention gay, lesbian or bi people once in the body of the text.

You are free to describe yourself anyway you like but it is homophobic to label anyone who asserts they are same sex rather than same gender attracted as Transphobia which is something TRA's are rather fond of doing.

ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn Tue 18-May-21 10:16:57

Do you have anything to say about homophobia and biphobia OP?

Or don't they matter to you?

Does lesbophobia concern you at all?

It would be great to see more focus on lesbians wouldn't it?

MiddlesexGirl Tue 18-May-21 10:17:06

What about homophobia and biphobia? Why put that in the title if you don't address it in the post?

UhtredRagnarson Tue 18-May-21 10:17:30

financialrecovery

Also we aren't discussing women's rights. She was discussing trans.

It's like discussing racism and saying "what about white people?"

Well yes but this isn't the experience we're discussing. Nobody is saying they aren't important and don't experience problems. But the focus needs to be on solely trans problems at times.

Did you just liken trans issues to racism? And women to white people? (the oppressor)

HappyHappyHippocampus Tue 18-May-21 10:19:23

financialrecovery

Also we aren't discussing women's rights. She was discussing trans.

It's like discussing racism and saying "what about white people?"

Well yes but this isn't the experience we're discussing. Nobody is saying they aren't important and don't experience problems. But the focus needs to be on solely trans problems at times.

But the OP is saying that this audience doesn’t understand. Which is ludicrous. If this was presented to another group of society, maybe, but this audience knows far too well.

TeenMinusTests Tue 18-May-21 10:19:26

Trans issues on using toilets could easily be resolved by campaigning for third spaces. Almost everyone would get behind that. But for some reason that isn't what is campaigned for.

The clash comes when what the trans campaigners are asking for directly and negatively impacts women.

financialrecovery Tue 18-May-21 10:19:48

@UhtredRagnarson Yes I did. Absolutely in the context that trans people are a minority massively discriminated against, and in the context that when conversations are brought to light, the first thing people say is "what about women?"

Well what about women? What about men?
The conversation isn't about women or men, it's about the trans experience.

This thread is not accepting new messages.