To think we won't see a Labour Government again for many years?

(751 Posts)
Rosehip10 Sat 08-May-21 09:17:34

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

OP’s posts: |
Elai1978 Sat 08-May-21 09:22:23

We can only hope!

the80sweregreat Sat 08-May-21 09:22:51

I think that in its current form , Labour has Everest to climb to win back trust and votes.
I read today that we could have a conservative government for 11 more years
The conservatives will need to act on their promises though and invest money in the North. Where that is coming from I've no idea!
Time will tell on that front.

PicsInRed Sat 08-May-21 09:24:09

They won't recover until they LISTEN to the people they expect to vote for them.

That includes women, Jewish people and the solid working and lower middle classes.

Until they listen, they'll remain in the wilderness, perhaps perishing like Liberal and Whig.

LouHotel Sat 08-May-21 09:25:30

The only way would be a Liberal coalition if Conservatives couldn't get a majority but that would be incredibly fragile.

btwwhichonespink Sat 08-May-21 09:27:48

Let's hope not! Or at least certainly not in their current incarnation.

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline Sat 08-May-21 09:30:31

I think starmer is an incredible improvement on corbyn.
I liked how he sort of did a coalition with Boris over covid and supported him.

He seems to be coming into his own in pm questions, but he chose the wrong target, wall paper.
The biggest problem is I suspect people remember his second ref days and anti brexit stance.
I hope he's not ousted yet and he gets more time to prove himself.
I'm not a fan but I'm not sure who I would be a fan of.

There are several urgent things that labour need to be drop and first is, holding the moral card badge.
It's like saying "I'm a good person just because I consider myself to be Catholic."
Second is telling people what they think, should think and how they got those thoughts,usually via the daily mail.
Third they need to redefine who they represent now.
Fourth, get woman identity straight.

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AFS1 Sat 08-May-21 09:30:34

We live in a right-leaning country, run by a powerful right-wing media. The only person who has ever won an election for Labour in my lifetime is Tony Blair.

The only way to get the Tories out of power is for the centrist and left-wing parties to work together. They need to have pacts in place not to stand against each other. I appreciate that it feels somewhat anti-democratic, but it’s the only way I can think of to oust the Tories. On the right the conservatives are the only (slightly) sane choice. On the left you’ve got Lab, SNP, Plaid, LibDems, Green...it splits the vote too much in our antiquated FPTP system.

newnortherner111 Sat 08-May-21 09:30:56

I agree OP. If there is any possibility of the Tories not getting a majority in 2024 Mr Johnson will resign and someone take his place. Who will be not as bad, and a new leader will gain back enough votes.

Given the number of SNP MPs, one of the Tory tactics will be that if you vote Labour, you will get the SNP calling the tune in any arrangement that will be needed to get a Labour Prime Minister.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow Sat 08-May-21 09:31:34

Liberal coalition is the only answer.

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline Sat 08-May-21 09:31:59

Pics in red, we see so many posters on here who seem to be reflect the core of the labour party and its quite obvious what the problems are they won't listen grin, it's so annoying.

TheKeatingFive Sat 08-May-21 09:32:14

The way they’re going, I think you’re right.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer Sat 08-May-21 09:32:33

No

Ive never voted Labour but I’m very aware that a good government needs a good opposition

PatsArrow Sat 08-May-21 09:32:43

This meme sums up Labour for me atm.

Even yesterday the perpetually online leftists were calling Hartlepool voters stupid and selfish for not wanting a fairer society (?). They were called gammons and nazis. They can't hear themselves. Until they listen. REALLY listen they're finished.

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline Sat 08-May-21 09:32:59

And, on que...

The right wing media.

I give up.

the80sweregreat Sat 08-May-21 09:33:32

The lib dems always tend to side to the right historically.
Maybe Labour need a new party?
I'm sure many mumsnetters could tell them where it's all gone wrong regarding women's rights and so on !
They should set up a focus group.
10 or 11 more years of the conservatives will be the death toll for so many vulnerable people and there will be more cuts, but they will just blame covid for a lot of that.
It is depressing , but just navel gazing won't get them anywhere. They have been soundly rejected on so many levels.
A new leader might help too ?
Who knows.

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline Sat 08-May-21 09:34:17

Pats yes, sums it up beautifully!
I have friend I adore but on this issue she's deaf, she's also said what a rotten stinking evil country we have. confused

RufustheBadgeringReindeer Sat 08-May-21 09:34:38

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline

And, on que...

The right wing media.

I give up.

Couldn’t figure out what you meant for a second 😀

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline Sat 08-May-21 09:35:34

They need to sort out who they represent and call supporters and leaders from there.
Who does Emily thornberry represent?

longwayoff Sat 08-May-21 09:35:44

Labour is stuffed without Scotland. I don't see how the vote can recover.

MadisonMontgomery Sat 08-May-21 09:35:55

The problem with Labour is they are supposed to be the party of the working class, but they actually despise the working class and people have realised this.

TheKeatingFive Sat 08-May-21 09:36:20

we see so many posters on here who seem to be reflect the core of the labour party and its quite obvious what the problems are they won't listen

The last few days on here have been illuminating and not in a good way.

Everyone’s fault but their own, convinced of their own righteousness, openly sneering at those who ‘should’ be voting for them. Recipe for disaster.

YouJustDoYou Sat 08-May-21 09:36:36

Thank God.

bookworm1632 Sat 08-May-21 09:37:02

Rosehip10

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

The reality is that the Tories have done well this time because of covid - specifically the vaccination program and the fact that everything is opening up (so people are positive about it) and while covid has been going on, nobody has had time to consider anything else (so other party's voices have been silenced).

I don't believe that there is ANYTHING that any other English politician could have done or said in the last year that would have made any difference.

The sleaze allegations haven't even reached the vast majority of tory voters, so they haven't had chance to sway them.

But there has been a seismic shift in party targets in the last 5 years with Corbyn taking Labour to support a combination of the youth vote, those on benefits and middle-class activist types, while the Tories have swept up the working class vote while retaining the "old" vote. Starmer hasn't done enough to change this.

The trouble is things like Climate Change, minority rights and foreign good causes seem to be at the fore-front of Labour's manifesto, but they're of little concern to the majority of working class voters - which has led to the view, widely-held, that the Labour party no longer represents them.

TheKeatingFive Sat 08-May-21 09:37:55

Blair got the media onside. Learn from his success.

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