This is a depressing attitude

[Disillusionedsusan]

Just spoke to a 12yo on our green.. He and another had been repeatedly taunting a younger child over last few days. Chanting a song with the child's name in it, rounding the child on their bikes while chanting etc. So today I went out and I said I was speaking to him as I knew he was older than the others and would understand why the behaviour was unkind. He said the child had called him a name. I said that was also wrong but it is different to taunting as a habit and to purposely upset someone. He replied it was a bit of fun. I told him in school it would be seen as bullying behaviour and he disagreed, says it happens all the time in his class. I told him that if he's purposely doing something else to upset someone for fun it is unkind and did he understand that? No he said quite unmoved. I find this so depressing tbh. That even when an adult spoke calmly and even calmly to him, he could see no wrong. Hate to think what he'll be doing unchecked in a few years.

[Disillusionedsusan]

Even kindly I meant!

[pepsicolagirl]

Well there are plenty of shitty adults and they didn't turn shitty overnight. FWIW I hope he was just putting on a front and what you said DID strike a chord. Who knows.

[Iminaglasscaseofemotion]

Hes lying. He knows fine.

[pepsicolagirl]

I am 40 now and still vividly remember a friends mum making a point of saying to me "you don't HAVE to say yes every time someone offers you something you know". I couldn't tell you what it even was she had offered me or why she made the comment but despite me probably giving her 0 reaction it stuck with me and possibly has made me far less selfish than I could have become.

[updownroundandround]

Unfortunately, a lot of kids are growing up who have never been punished for bad behaviour.
They have also never been made to suffer any consequences for bad behaviour/choices they've made as their parents have always either excused their DC's behaviour (they didn't mean/understand what they were doing) or they've excused it under the guise of 'normality' (oh, it's 'normal' for them to be angry etc etc).
Either way, the kid has never learned that they have to behave in 'society'/ 'school' but have been mollycoddled their whole lives.

It's really sad for the poor kids.

[Disillusionedsusan]

Oh your responses are so kind and I never thought of the possible hope on it.. He wasn't a bit bothered whereas I would have been mortified. I too remember a friend's mum pulling me up on something, suckling my hair, and I never did it again! Another thing he said was that the younger child would have to learn to take it.. I said no, it is the person taunting that has to change their behaviour but again this comment I found so cold.

[Disillusionedsusan]

Exactly, this child's mum apparently believes he can do no wrong.. Something like this is not even a difficult parenting moment imo, you simply bring the child in if they can't behave but of course at 12 he's not supervised and so many prefer to just close their door to anything that could be happening. To the child being taunted I said that those boys couldn't be having much fun if they had to spend their time being unkind..

[pinkstripeycat]

By the older child saying the other child should learn to take it gives a possible indication of how the older child Is treated at home. It’s quite upsetting when you teach your own children to be kind and patient with others and then they get treated badly by others and don’t understand why others would behave this way

[GettingUntrapped]

I really hope not, but sometimes I wonder if we do so much for our children that it is in human nature to be a very selfish 'my perception is correct, 'cos I have an opinion and that's how I really feel.' Terrifying.

[5foot5]

I am inclined to agree with pepsicolagirl he does understand what you mean and deep down probably knows he is in the wrong, but feels he would lose face if he has to admit it. Hopefully though what you said went home and might have some effect on his behaviour eventually

[Boatonthehorizon]

You did the right thing in speaking to him. Well done.
It will make a difference to all three of the children. It does take a community to raise a child and it's heartening that things are going back to a time when adults can have a guiding hand.
Consider speaking to his parents if it happens again. They probably don't know he's up to no good and will equally speak to him.

Children arent very civilised when left to their own devices. They need guidance and to be raised in a society that keeps an eye on them collectively. Eg "That's not very nice boys. Don't do that" "I don't think you should be doing that"
"Boys! What are you doing there!?" "Get away from there its not a safe place to play"

Bullying and anti social behaviour peaked when adults turned a blind eye. I think perhaps the media was to blame for this. (The media for years had 14yos played by tough acting, until camera said 'Cut!' makeup strewn 25yos.)
Actual 14yos are very young, always terribly innocent and want to do the best in life. I've taught in the toughest estates in UK and I swear by this.

It's not exactly logical for adults to be scared of minors. I'm 5'2 and I'm not.

[Disillusionedsusan]

Yes I hope so.. It's the blatant way they did it, did not care one bit that anyone could see or hear them.. I do remember being mean at times growing up tbh but I would never have answered to an adult like that. I'm not mean now!

[Cabinfever10]

Unfortunately I see a lot of this sort of thing.
There is 1 boy in particular at my DS's school let's call him "tarquin". He constantly bullies p1s -p5s (hes p7) basically anyone smaller than him. Talks back to teachers and generally a disruptive nasty little so and so. The school have done everything they can but according to the parents "poor little tarquin" is being bullied because their little angel would never behave like that. He has been kicked out of every after school club in the area again poor little tarquin is unfairly blamed.
Then lock down happened and mum and dad had to deal with him 🤣
Now they're convinced that tarquin must have ADHD (he doesn't)
They even asked me and other SN parents for help and advice on how to make the school/drs treat him for it🤣
Well let's just say that they got a few home truths from all of us
But we're just mean and don't want to share the schools senco with him and want to keep it to ourselves
Its parents like tarquins who raise children like the 1 you spoke to

[Disillusionedsusan]

Thanks boat food for thought there. I suppose this child could also be being treated like this by others. Because of what I've heard about his mum I'm loathe to go there but I agree I'd always prefer someone pick my child up on something or a child tell me if he was doing something hurtful in anyway and I am clear on that to the dc here, I'm a come and let me know person. Unfortunately many parents are completely absent and unengaged and don't want to know. The other child for example, would just swear at you and has no fucks to give (age 7) as his parents have repeatedly let him know they don't care by ignoring or abusing anyone complaining.. I had my hopes in the older and sometimes more civilised one.

[Disillusionedsusan]

Oh god cabinfever, is it wrong that I feel sorry for Tarquin?!

[Clareflairmare]

I think you were absolutely right to intervene. Given how very unrepentant he was, are you able to identify which school they go to? I would report to them as bullying. Most have a behaviour policy which covers it outside of school.

[Cabinfever10]

No I used to feel sorry for tarquin too but after 7 years of him making my DS's life miserable at school I loathe him.
He knows what he does is wrong but doesn't care as mum and dad will back him up even when the school showed them videos of him kicking the snot out of a p1 it wasn't tarquins fault the p1 obviously provoked him

[Disillusionedsusan]

I actually was thinking of this more in a 'You need to be clear what bullying behaviour can look like' as one of your oldest students isn't au fair with it rather than naming him..

[Disillusionedsusan]

Oh my god re Tarquin. He sounds like the 7yo involved that I mentioned.. Horrendous. Talk about completely leaving your child now because you can't be arsed. This 7yo bit my child there a thick top one evening, age 5, and was back out playing unsupervised with sweets a half hour later. My dc had to come in for safety but the biter was let play I can understand your lack of sympathy. He's been let down badly.

[2bazookas]

I'm guessing there was an audience to your conversation. A boy of that age, challenged by an adult, doesn't want to lose face in front of his mates . So he does the hardman act.

If you engaged him alone he would probably have responded differently and shown you a different side to him. I found this over and over again when teaching tough boys and men.

[Disillusionedsusan]

I engaged him alone. Nobody nearby told my own dc to move on. The 7yo had gone in and he had stopped taunting..

[Disillusionedsusan]

Nobody nearby COMMA!

[Cabinfever10]

Yes he has @Disillusionedsusan but what really boils my blood is the parents now claiming that its ADHD rather than accepting that they are the problem. Just discipline your child ffs.
I'm sorry about your ds. Sounds like the biter is another tarquin in the making

[Disillusionedsusan]

It does for sure. I have heard other parents say it's terrible isn't it but there's probably something wrong there.. And don't think the utter lack of supervision or parenting from age 4 is what's wrong. What a coincidence.

[IAintentDead]

I challenged a 14 year old once (in my early 40s). He. grabbed his crotch and asked if I wanted him to give me one. For once I reacted quickly and said if he needed his nappy changing he should go home for his mum to do it.

His mates thought it was hilarious, one of them even shouted 'Good on yer miss - ee asked for that'