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Furlough holiday

(430 Posts)
MrsQGinglass Fri 18-Sep-20 11:47:21

I am furloughed still and work for a large international company. There are only a few off us still furloughed 2 in my office only.

I received an informing me that all holiday from last year that was carried over would have to be used in the October. I know the reason why it is cheaper for them to get part of the government to pay it.
My issue is that those that have not been furloughed are allowed to carry over their holiday for the next 2 years.
I really do not think this is fair as they are treating us differently.
I have contacted HR for clarification but they have not answered my emails.
Is this lawful.
AIBUto think that they are treating us unfairly.

OP’s posts: |
Racoonworld Fri 18-Sep-20 12:03:22

Yes it’s lawful. You have just had months off on furlough, why would you expect to carry over holiday after that? Every company I know is making people use holiday during furlough.

DamitJanet Fri 18-Sep-20 12:12:52

It’s allowed. All the companies I know of that have used furlough require employees to take some holiday before returning to work. (Generally proportionate time the amount accrued during that time)

Florencex Fri 18-Sep-20 12:21:02

It is legal and of course it is fair! Other people have been working whilst you have been sat at home on full or 80% pay. It is fair that those who have worked should be able to carry their holiday over. Hopefully they will also get a bonus of some kind at the end of this by way of thanks.

MrsQGinglass Fri 18-Sep-20 12:29:16

Racoonworld

Yes it’s lawful. You have just had months off on furlough, why would you expect to carry over holiday after that? Every company I know is making people use holiday during furlough.

I have not had months off through my own choice, furlough is very tough to be on, when you have no job security.

My question is why are they making only one group taking the holiday and not others and have allowed them to carry over the holiday.
They only furloughed 10% of the workforce.
Why treat us differently, it would be unlawful if they made only woman take the holiday.

OP’s posts: |
MrsQGinglass Fri 18-Sep-20 12:32:57

DamitJanet

It’s allowed. All the companies I know of that have used furlough require employees to take some holiday before returning to work. (Generally proportionate time the amount accrued during that time)

I understand that they can make me, but how is it fair that if I do return to work the Barbara in accounts has been allowed to carry over 13 days to use in the next 2 years but I am not allowed to carry over my 10 days.
Furloughed employers have the same rights and can't be discriminated against.

OP’s posts: |
LavenderBucket Fri 18-Sep-20 12:35:32

But if it wasn't used up, those returning from furlough would soon be off again taking the holiday they built up.

It's a shit situation for everyone, I get being on furlough is stressful, but equally those still working have had to pick up the work which wasn't being done by those furloughed, presumably. So it's not fair on them to carry on picking up the workload while you go off on holiday after having months off.

LavenderBucket Fri 18-Sep-20 12:39:05

Why treat us differently, it would be unlawful if they made only woman take the holiday.

I assume they didn't only make women furloughed? It would be unlawful if they only made women take the holiday because it would be sexual discrimination. I don't think being on furlough is a protected characteristic.

MrsQGinglass Fri 18-Sep-20 12:40:59

The only people left on Furlough are woman.

In employment law you have to treat all employees the same!

OP’s posts: |
timeforanew Fri 18-Sep-20 12:41:38

Definitely legal. We had to use our annual leave pro rata during lockdown when things were crazy busy (i.e. we all worked through). Company can’t afford everybody off at the same time, so is that or redundancies.
You had a much easier time on furlough than working through (stress levels were insane in both situations, but at least you had time to eat and sleep), so you get less flexibility with holidays.
I feel for everyone who will get made redundant after furlough, but all the people who just go back in their jobs got the golden ticket!

mumtobabygilrl Fri 18-Sep-20 12:42:20

If they are ripping salary up to 100% yes they can insist you take AL

I'd be more worried that they are asking you to take it to get out of paying the equivalent IF they make you redundant. Employers would rather the AL be used than pay it out

mumtobabygilrl Fri 18-Sep-20 12:43:21

*topping not ripping!

MrsQGinglass Fri 18-Sep-20 12:44:43

Those that still worked cancelled their holiday as they were not going away so carried their holiday over to next year.
Work cancelled my holiday and did not pay me full pay for the bank holidays.
All holidays would have to be agreed by line managers and they can be carried over for 2 years I would not take my holiday straight away.

OP’s posts: |
MrsQGinglass Fri 18-Sep-20 12:49:43

timeforanew

Definitely legal. We had to use our annual leave pro rata during lockdown when things were crazy busy (i.e. we all worked through). Company can’t afford everybody off at the same time, so is that or redundancies.
You had a much easier time on furlough than working through (stress levels were insane in both situations, but at least you had time to eat and sleep), so you get less flexibility with holidays.
I feel for everyone who will get made redundant after furlough, but all the people who just go back in their jobs got the golden ticket!

My colleagues had time to eat and sleep.
They had their normal work load.

My point is that they have allowed all those that worked to carry over their holiday to use in the next 2 years.

I have not had it easy I have lost over 20% of my salary funnily enough my bills did not go down. I can't make plans because of furlough and have been turned down for finance because I am furloughed.
I want to be back at work but I am being refused.

OP’s posts: |
nerdsville Fri 18-Sep-20 12:50:20

You don't have to treat all employees the same, you just can't discriminate based on a protected characteristic.

They're not asking you to use holiday because you're women, they're asking you to use holiday because you've been off work for upto 6 months and they can't accommodate you all coming back halfway through the year with loads of holiday. People who have been working throughout lockdown have presumably not been able to take as much leave as they might have done, so it's reasonable to allow them a longer period to use their accrued leave once things calm down.

We've done exactly the same with our staff. Non frontline and furloughed staff have been made to use up proportions of their holiday throughout the year and won't be allowed extra carryover, while frontline staff (who couldn't take much leave) have been granted extra carryover. We've even given them some extra holiday this year as a thank you. Perfectly reasonable.

BanalAnal Fri 18-Sep-20 12:52:15

I think you need to look at the bigger picture.

In your shoes I'd be glad of having a job (assuming you do) and not arguing the toss on this detail - detail that is perfectly reasonable for the employer

I'm sure it's shit being off on furlough not knowing what will happen but this situation is bigger than just you.

At work, we were told to take a certain amount of vacation each month up to end of summer - yes it wasn't convenient for working parents (me) planning time off for holidays but we sucked it up as part of the bigger picture.

Gazelda Fri 18-Sep-20 12:53:08

But Barbara in accounts might not have been allowed to take her AL when she wanted to as there was insufficient staff to cover.
It would be harsh on Babs if she were further restricted on when she can take AL post October because those that have been on furlough are wanting the same dates.

I can see both sides. And I don't know the legalities.

Being on furlough can't have been easy. I honestly sympathise. But nor has not being furloughed been easy. We've all had to suck up an element of unfairness.

GreenTiles22 Fri 18-Sep-20 12:53:13

*In employment law you have to treat all employees the same!
*
No you don't. You have to treat them fairly and reasonably, and that might be different depending on personal circumstances.

Employment law is there to protect employees against unfair or unreasonable treatment.

Your employer has to pay you full pay for your annual leave so you won't disadvantaged. GM

Employers are able to tell their employees when to take annual leave, as long as they give notice that is a at least twice as long as the leave. So if they ask you to take 5 days off, they need to give you at least 10 days notice.

The carryover option is only there to those employees who can't take their annual leave, due to increased workload for example. That is not the case in your situation - you are able to take your annual leave therefore you should do so.

Brighterthansunflowers Fri 18-Sep-20 12:55:48

YABU

Of course they can make you take holiday and of course it’s fair. You’ve had six months off work, being paid. Your colleagues have been doing all the work in the meantime.

They will have had to use holiday if they needed a day off, while you haven’t.

whirlwindwallaby Fri 18-Sep-20 12:56:14

You've had six months off and don't want to take any of it as holiday? As long as they pay you 100% for those weeks then I don't see the problem. They can't have everyone taking extra time off at once so it makes sense.

Thack Fri 18-Sep-20 12:56:20

Wouldn't it be unfair that those on furlough, who can spend time with their family, decorate their house, read, binge watch Netflix, go to the park, no daily commute etc etc for months come back to work with the same holidays as those who have been in work every day?

I worked throughout and took on a lot more than usual. We had other issues at the time and with v few people in and I would call it the lost stressful time I've experienced. Yes, boo hoo for me- I've had no bonus, prob won't get a pay rise and nothing extra. Colleagues who had 3 months off had a pro rata number of holidays taken (note the boss topped them up to full pay throughout). Meanwhile their gardens are immaculate, fresh paint on the walls and a few have said how nice it was to spend that time with their kids. I know it's not a choice and many prefer to be in work, but it is fair to try to balance for those who are stressed in work too.

MrsQGinglass Fri 18-Sep-20 12:58:36

@nerdsville

Yes you have to treat people equally at work!
You can't favour one person over the other.

OP’s posts: |
timeforanew Fri 18-Sep-20 13:00:59

Working during lockdown was hell for people with children or other dependents. Even if workload was normal, having all the other stuff on top made it hell. They‘ve earned a bit of holiday flexibility (which is all they are getting!)

whirlwindwallaby Fri 18-Sep-20 13:01:32

I have not had it easy I have lost over 20% of my salary funnily enough my bills did not go down.
20% after tax and NI? Did you not have any travel or other work related expenses?

GreenTiles22 Fri 18-Sep-20 13:02:30

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