To understand the first, but not the second, third, fourth...

[Sayitagainwhydontyou]

I know that lots of men only show their true nature once children are born, that abuse very commonly starts with pregnancy, and that many women are completely blindsided when their husbands become abusive/neglectful/selfish/useless/detatched after they have a baby...

I am absolutely not saying "what possessed you to have a baby with this man??"

But i am baffled by women who's partners are shit dads, who then go on to have more children with them. It just seems so hugely unfair on the kids.

[KeepingPlain]

Well the abusive dad's probably force more children to be born.

The useless ones though, yeah I don't get that. If he's useless with one and doesn't help, why would two be better or three?

[Bigyellowsunshine]

I have a relative who is a shit dad. The fact he was shit became apparent very quickly after his first child was born. He wouldn’t ‘babysit’ because ‘it’s not his job’, he kicked up a huge fuss every time he was expected to pay for something his child needed etc etc. Him and his partner then had another baby. It baffles me to be honest. It’s clear he’s not going to be around long term and whilst he is around he’s just awful. What possessed his partner to have/agree to another baby is beyond me when all she does is moan (quite rightly!) about how awful he is.

[Winterwoollies]

Spend your energy on being baffled why men are abusive, not on why their soul-destroyed victims stay with them.

[Dollywilde]

I find it hard to understand too but I guess the women have their own reasons. My assumption would be that they feel stuck and ground down and that they’re not going to get any better than these guys so it’s put up with it or go it alone, and they’re at least financially better off staying in the relationship?

Also I imagine the urge to provide a sibling for their DC1 is a factor. But like I say, I’m guessing.

[LittleBearPad]

Yanbu re the useless ones - particularly the ones that it was obvious pre-DC would be useless

The abusive ones are another kettle of fish.

[Noneformethanks]

N/C

Because he wouldn’t let me have access to contraception he binned my pills and he wouldn’t wear condoms.

I had no money that didn’t have to be accounted for so couldn’t access support. No car of my own we had one we shared and he monitored it

Because my babies and children were a little bit of sunshine in a crap marriage where I was physically, sexually, financially and emotionally abused.

Because no matter how many excuses I could make he was bigger and stronger than me and eventually it worked for him and I got pregnant.

Because no one believed me that the nice pleasant family man that they saw was abusive and nasty.

[Wannabefarmer]

In my case it was because I wanted DD to have a sibling. I have no family, ex DP has only a couple of elderly relatives so once we're gone DD would be alone. I'm now a single mum to both of them and wouldn't have it any other way. I just hope they get along when they're adults!

[Sayitagainwhydontyou]

Absolutely take the point on abusive men coercing additional children.

The point RE useless men still stands.

[Noneformethanks]

How do you know the difference looking from the outside?

[Sayitagainwhydontyou]

@Noneformethanks

How do you know the difference looking from the outside?

It doesn't really matter if outsiders can tell the difference though, as they're not the ones making the reproductive decisions.

[Noneformethanks]

But you’re judging. You’re saying you don’t understand it. And I’m saying. How do you know what the reasonS are, whether they are to useless or abusive, looking from the outside.

From the outside my ex looked just a bit shit. Not very engaged with the kids a bit selfish and rather bumbling and inadequate.

How would you ever have known he was abusive unless you were me? The people I told (family members of mine) didn’t believe me because he was (is) a water torturer according to Lundy Bancroft’s definition.

[Mintjulia]

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship?
I’ve watched a relative be worn down, undermined, had her confidence destroyed while her 1st was young and she had pnd. Then be berated daily as a failure for not producing a boy by her in laws. Made to feel that everything would be ok if she did next time.
It was horrendous to watch. @winterwooliea is right.

[Merryoldgoat]

I agree with you OP but it’s hugely unpopular on here.

However, having grown up in a dysfunctional family where there was emotional abuse I’ll never forgive my mother for not leaving her partner and having children with him.

I love my siblings but she had no business having them in the situation she was in.

[KitKatastrophe]

I think some people have this idea that they always wanted 2, 3, 4 children. So they do that. Also some women seem to be sadly made to think that they cant do any better, or that all men are the same, or that no man would want to "take on" a woman with kids so of they want 2 kids they need to have them with the current partner, or risk never having them at all.

[Noneformethanks]

He told people I was highly strung. No sense of humour. Had even me doubting my sanity and thinking I was a bad person. Isolated me from all the friends I used to have (except for one, bless her for sticking around he hated her).

He told me I was stupid. So stupid I couldn’t even make a cup of tea without being corrected.

Lots of eye rolls and tutting every single day every single thing I did was wrong and I was corrected. Because he was the adult man in the house and I had to know my place And do as I was told and he had to correct me because otherwise I wouldn’t be able to cope with anything.

I actually thought I was the shittiest shit thing ever on the planet.



But from the outside. You. Didn’t. See. That.

You’d have just thought he was a bit of a crap dad.

[dottiedodah]

Well human nature being what it is ,women always hope for the best even in a crap marriage .Also when one child is born there is often a strong urge for another . Society is still weighed heavily against women and often(not always ) the women who are badly treated tend to be poorer and unable to earn enough money .(Another thread here obv)! They often have poor self esteem in the first place ,made worse by an abusive DP so feel generally a bit shit!Maybe they should limit their children as well?!

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Everyone will focus on the abusive relationships. These are one thing.

Those who choose to stay and have more children when he is simply 'useless' is another. My guess is baby-rabies. They'd prefer to stay and have more babies because they want the babies rather than take their chances of having more kids if they split.

[MsEllany]

You’re not allowed to ask this question. People get extremely offended when you insinuate there might be some completely expected repercussions of having children with a known idiot.

And no, I’m not talking about those men who turned abusive after a child was born. I’m talking about those women that think they can change a man by having a kid, only to be shocked that they still never stop smoking weed/playing xbox/choose your poison when the kid is born.

[dottiedodah]

Also DP often can turn it on and off as it were and are nice and kind ,then when the woman feels she can relax and maybe try for a baby .He will often turn turtle and re start the abuse .Leaving her confused "maybe is me ,I have done something to upset him?"She hasnt obv!"I must be nicer,calmer,quieter"Obv No to all 3! and so on so he pulls the strings ,and she may not realise it is abuse until later on! My friend is a Counsellor and this is a well known pattern of behaviour apparently)

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

You’re not allowed to ask this question

I'm guessing it will be pulled as being 'not in the spirit' ...

[Ginfordinner]

I hope you have managed to extricate yourself from your horrible situation Noneformethanks

Yours and similar circumstances aside, I agree with the OP. I often read posts on mumsnet from women whose partners are alcoholics, abusive, useless, other reason for not having a baby, and they are actively trying to conceive! Those are the women I don't understand.

[Washyourhands48]

I agree with you OP, but this will get pulled as it’s a bit of a TAAT. I was thinking the same when I read the first thread.

[Sayitagainwhydontyou]

@Noneformethanks unfortunately that's just a fact of life - people judge you on appearances. Also, despite what Mumsnet will tell you, you're much more likely to wind up with a useless man than an abusive one.

@Mintjulia yes, actually, i spent the first half of my twenties being physically and emotionally abused. My top priority, as i wasn't able to leave straight away, was avoiding pregnancy.

[malloo]

Friend of mine's ex was useless but not abusive, she wanted two kids and sibling for her first so had another. They've split now, don't think she regrets having second one.

[Sayitagainwhydontyou]

@dottiedodah

Well human nature being what it is ,women always hope for the best even in a crap marriage .Also when one child is born there is often a strong urge for another . Society is still weighed heavily against women and often(not always ) the women who are badly treated tend to be poorer and unable to earn enough money .(Another thread here obv)! They often have poor self esteem in the first place ,made worse by an abusive DP so feel generally a bit shit!Maybe they should limit their children as well?!

This is the issue though - why does a woman's "strong urge" to have a child outweigh the child's right to a good life? Why is it fair to saddle children with useless fathers who'll neglect and ignore them, often causing lifelong emotional issues, just because you wanted to have a baby?