Should I ask to speak to child services behind my partner's back?

[Worriedandconcerned34]

Hi,
Posting here for traffic and also because I am hoping for some genuine advice. This could well turn out to be an essay, so please forgive me.

I have strong suspicions that my partner's children (who live with his ex-wife) are being abused emotionally by their mother's partner. I don't believe they are being harmed physically but I don't know how long this will remain the case. We see these children 50% of the time, so on a regular basis throughout the week.

My partner knows about it and we have contacted child services numerous times in the past year. There is a case-worker assigned but we haven't heard from them since June and it appears as though they have closed the case. I worry that they have closed the case as the children are fed, clean, clothed - they are not being neglected. My partner is now reluctant to rock the boat any further as one of the children involved is not biologically his but he has always classed them as his own. But he has been threatened by the ex-wife that he will not get to see this child if he continues to (in her words) "try and ruin her life". So he is seemingly content to let things play out.

The signs of emotional abuse that we have been made aware of:
Ex-wife's partner has called the children names like "Dick". He has called the children fat and told them they are "mental". He has insisted they call him Daddy. He has threatened to abduct one of the children. He has been arrested for common assault against one of the children but the charges were dropped. He has taken videos on his phone of the children crying and he appears to be all nice on camera asking them why they are so upset and afraid of him. He has pinned their mum up against the wall. There have been at least 3 occasions the police have been called in the last 4 months by neighbours due to the shouting and this man has damaged the property and kicked holes in the doors. He has broken/barged his way into the house and shouted at the children whilst they were on factime with their friends and apparently their friends were all crying watching what was going on. This has all happened whilst the children have been at the property. There are two children involved here, one is my partner's daughter and is 9 years old. The other girl (not my partner's) is 13. The older child has been posting alarming social media videos saying she wants to die and has been self-harming. When approached about this the ex-wife says that the children are making a big fuss over nothing. I appreciate that a lot of what the children say (which I haven't posted here) sounds like normal children rebelling against authority - things like not wanting to go out and exercise, not wanting to play a game with each other, fighting and bickering but I am tearing my hair out trying to think of what else I can do to help these kids. If my partner is not willing to try again, what can I do? Should I contact the social worker again?

I should add that the ex-wife has promised over and over again to my partner that this man is gone for good. But then she takes him back again within two weeks. This has happened on three occasions throughout lockdown. Nothing changes.

I am a little bit lost as I tried so hard to get this man removed from the children's house but I am only a partner to their father. I have no say in what happens. Should I get involved again? I know that if I ask my partner if he wants to take anything further then he will say no, based on what kicked off last time. But these children are being systematically abused and failed by everyone in their lives, or so it seems to me. I don't think I can just sit back and watch. I have told my partner every time that I have spoken to the case worker or NSPCC, or whoever else I have tried to get some help from. But this time I know he won't want me to disturb the semi-peace that is happening now.

What should I do, Mumsnet? :(

[availablename]

Stay out of it. You have already contacted Social Services who have closed the case that means after thorough investigation they are happy the children are safe.
The children's dad wants you to leave it now and still you are trying to get involved behind his back.

[JuniperFather]

This feels to me like snitching now. You've already got involved, you did what you could.

[ChockyBicky]

Leave the family alone, you've put them through the mill once and they've proved themselves.
Now back off.

[Enoughnowstop]

You might do well to offer a non judgemental open door to mum because if it escalates, she may need support. Are you able to talk to her aaa all?

[Lockheart]

Good grief.

Man is physically violent and OP is "snitching" and "putting the family through the mill" and should mind her own business.

I agree there is probably little you can do OP, at least not until he puts their mother in hospital or himself in a police cell, but it is a desperately sad situation.

I would prioritise being there for the children for the time being. If there is evidence of further abuse then call the police / social services as appropriate.

[FrootTheLoot]

I'm really surprised by these responses. If you were a neighbour witnessing this behaviour continuing after SS had closed a case you'd absolutely be told to get back in touch!

How many times do we read about things happening to children and then find out SS had been out and closed a case several times before. It does not mean that nothing is going on.

If this is continuing since the time before and there have been new incidents, I absolutely would contact them again and inform them of the new incidents.

Your husband is completely failing his children here. You do not sound like a snitch, you sound like the only bloody person who gives a shit about these kids.

But you're a step mum so the general consensus is always 'butt out' even when kids are being abused? crazy.

[Worriedandconcerned34]

I know it sounds like snitching, but the children are coming to us since it was all looked at before and telling us more disturbing things that have happened since. I think the case worker may have closed the case but I'm not sure if she has, it could still be open. I haven't spoken to them since.

Points taken though, I don't want to be seen as sticking my nose in where it isn't wanted. And I don't want to do anything behind my partner's back either. It sounds from the responses that what I have done so far is enough.

@Enoughnowstop, there is no relationship with the children's mother. I wish there could be for the children's sakes, but she has said many hurtful and untrue things to the children about us (telling them that we are fat and because we eat too much we will die soon from heart attacks - recent example that really upset the children - they were crying when they asked my partner if he was going to die soon) It is one gigantic mess. I'm probably going to take the advice of posters here and just continue to keep out of it.

[FrootTheLoot]

Oh and obviously you should just offer a supporting shoulder to the mum...?! This place is nuts.

[FrootTheLoot]

I'm probably going to take the advice of posters here and just continue to keep out of it

I would at least keep pushing your partner OP. If the children are coming to you and telling you about new things that are still happening, how can any decent parent just sit back and listen to that and not do anything?

And I hope all these posters saying it's none of your business and you're a snitch could live with themselves if heaven forbid something did happen.

[ChockyBicky]

we have contacted child services numerous times in the past year. There is a case-worker assigned but we haven't heard from them since June and it appears as though they have closed the case.

You don't know anything, you said you just have suspicions, social workers will know as they will have dug around and looked into the facts and made their decision accordingly.

I am only a partner to their father. I have no say in what happens. Should I get involved again?

No

[Shelby2010]

Do the children know social services have been involved?

Could you encourage the older child to talk to an adult outside the family eg a friend’s parent or teacher when school starts. It might be that SS will take it more seriously if they don’t think it’s just one parent bitching about the other.

What is being done about helping with the self-harming? GP as a start, I guess to get a referral for specialist.

[FrootTheLoot]

The older child has been posting alarming social media videos saying she wants to die and has been self-harming

And please for the love of God, don't just ignore this at the very least. Please get her some kind of help.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked people are advising you to just ignore all this.

[Worriedandconcerned34]

Ok so a mixed bag of responses, thanks to @FrootTheLoot and @Lockheart - I was feeling like a terrible person before you replied (!). I don't want to mess things up, I don't want the drama (you can challenge me on this if you want but I truly don't), none of this is any good for these children. And they are at my house 50% of the time so I can't help but be aware of things that are going on.

I appreciate the advice behind all posts though. I think the stay out but keep a concerned eye might be appropriate here.

[ZooKeeper19]

@Worriedandconcerned34 you are not snitching, do not stop, go through walls if you have to, involve your partner, police, social services, keep shouting till the kids are safe.

I can't believe there are people here calling you a snitch. Shocking.

Save the kids. You may be their only hope.

[GoldenPlatitudes]

Jesus these responses! I would report again, I couldn't sit back and let something happen, it sounds like an ticking time bomb!

[ZooKeeper19]

@Worriedandconcerned34 also this may be not the best advice but at 9 and 13 they are aware. Can you tell them that they can stand up for themselves? They can call helpline, police, child protection, they can make themselves heard. The only thing is they need to do it safely, otherwise bad things may happen. If you can tell them "if XYZ happens and you feel unsafe call 999". If this happens enough times, the police will have to act.

[FrootTheLoot]

I can't believe your husband is happy to sit back and hear all this because he doesn't want to rock the boat.

DH would move heaven and earth if he thought his kids were being abused by someone in their mother's home.

[dontdisturbmenow]

Its a very fine line because ultimately, everything you worry about are suspicions even what the kids tell you because this could be twisted.

Only ss can get as closed to what the truth is as is possible. They have investigated and are reassured that the kids are not in danger. Sadly, they do get things wrong sometimes and they can oy act of the kids welfare is affected, not for having an imbecile SF.

It's hard not to do anything when you believe children you care for could be harmed, but how far do you go when by doing so, you could make the situation worse for everyone?

Continue to keep an eye on the children and be there for them to counteract the crap they get at their mum. Hopefully, she will finally decide to get rid of him soon.

[caringcarer]

I would give children telephone number for child line and tell them to call if scared. At 13 eldest child can ask for support herself. It is worse as kids not at school do can't talk to trusted teacher.

[FrootTheLoot]

At 13 eldest child can ask for support herself

It sounds like she is asking for it from her father. Poor child

The issues with mum's partner aside, if she is posting videos online about wanting to die and self harming, that is very serious. What is your husband doing about that?

[Worriedandconcerned34]

@ChockyBicky, you have made your point. I have not witnessed any abuse to the children, I have only got what they have told us and what they have posted on social media to go on. But I don't know how else I would witness emotional abuse without physically being at the property.

What I do know is that their grandmother on the mother's side is also concerned and has taken the children to stay with her for the night to keep them safe when this man has been in a fit of rage. This is not normal behaviour to me.

I know that the children's schools also have the children on their safety concern list - this happened before we ever spoke to child services, so this isn't as a result of me sticking my nose in either.

This man has also been aggressive to me and the police were involved on that occasion as well and he was charged with a public order offence.

I hope I'm not coming across as picking a fight. I don't want to just sound as though I am bitching - I haven't contacted child services over every silly little misdemeanor or transgression - surely this would be more a case of snitching if I had?

[Nymeriastark1]

I can't believe some of these responses. Welcome to Mumsnet. Where it's a bigger crime to be a stepmum or a man, over a mum allowing a man to abuse her children. Don't just leave it op. He is physically abusing them. Keep pushing it.

[FrootTheLoot]

Can your husband speak to the grandmother?

[Duggeehugs82]

@JuniperFather

This feels to me like snitching now. You've already got involved, you did what you could.

Who on earth calls someone reporting someone who could potentially abusing children a snitch? R u joking? ...just wow

[Lockdownhairdontcare]

To those saying SS have conducted a thorough investigation how can you possibly know this?

My former SIL is an alcoholic who prostitutes herself to fund this. SS were called as her daughter was not in school, left home alone, filthy house, dirty child, malnourished etc. SS called former BIL and he said we are managing it ourselves, I have daughter. SS called her, no visit, she said all well.... that was it!!!