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Made redundant without notice. No holiday pay, no notice pay, no redundancy pay.

(80 Posts)
Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 22:25:35

I have made a previous thread about this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3949848-Employer-closed-at-shutdown-and-reopened-at-a-different-location

I received some brilliant advice.

I'm now at the stage where I have passed on my mum's previous employer info as well as a breakdown of what we believe she is entitled to.

The nutshell is in the title. I was advised to seek advice from CAB but it's impossible to get hold of anybody sonar this stage we've asked for what's in the title.

That said, mum has never had a contract or payslips throughout her employment. She has paid tax and NI and has P60s as well as a P45.

My AIBU is, am I being unreasonable to think that if mum can't provide absolute proof of what she's owed, if it gets to the employment tribunal stage, she won't have a leg to stand on?

Without payslips or a contract, she can't prove she hasn't been paid annual leave. All she has is 100's of texts between her and her employer.

Ines feeling confident until I read that if it goes to an employment tribunal, mum might have to bear the costs if she loses.

I'm not sure whether we should nip it in the bud or not?

OP’s posts: |
Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:14:23

@Queenie8 I've already started the ACAS process as her representative. She's always been on UC during this time, and before.

OP’s posts: |
Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 23:15:29

Tribunals tend to give more benefit of the doubt to employees rather than employees.

Isitgiroday Mon 13-Jul-20 23:15:52

Definitely call ACAS - you're mother's employer is breaking employment law. They will be able to help. I've used them before and they are really helpful.

MotherOfDragonite Mon 13-Jul-20 23:16:47

A bit random but do you think they could be claiming furlough pay on her behalf but not paying it to her? The timing is just a bit suspicious. It might be worth calling HMRC to check whether this is happening.

Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 23:18:10

Depending on her age & how much she earn tea h week was she automTically enrolled into a pension or if not entitled was she given the option to join voluntarily. (You can get them on that too if she was entitled).

notapizzaeater Mon 13-Jul-20 23:20:26

Has she legal cover on her house insurance ? In a union ?

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:22:33

@Comefromaway thank you. I've got her most recent P60 and her gross pay for the last financial year is a few thousand below what it should have been. My calculations show she was paid £6 per hour and that's without including holiday pay.

OP’s posts: |
Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:23:53

@MotherOfDragonite she believes the business is open elsewhere. I've been advised by ACAS to open a seperate claim once we know of it's location.

OP’s posts: |
Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 23:24:09

Well below minimum wage! It gets worse.

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:25:03

@Comefromaway that's my first laugh of the day😂 sorry! She has no pension to speak of!

OP’s posts: |
Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:25:55

@notapizzaeater no, nothing at all. She's 50+ on minimum wage and on UC.

OP’s posts: |
Ihavenoidea Mon 13-Jul-20 23:26:42

Does she have any cover for legal fees within her home insurance policy? The purpose for those legal fees need not be home insurance related.

MotherOfDragonite Mon 13-Jul-20 23:27:01

Yes, pension auto-enrolment started last year. If she earns over £10k a year she should have been automatically enrolled. Below that you can opt in but it doesn't happen automatically.

People can be furloughed even if the whole business hasn't closed, I think, OP. In my team three of us were furloughed but one wasn't and kept working.

Timesdone Mon 13-Jul-20 23:27:14

Take a look at ACAS site & give them a call when you've read up on issues you've raised in your posts.

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:29:36

@Ihavenoidea nothing at all, I know this as fact. If I could help her I would. Its so frustrating because we can't see her ex employee accepting what we ask for (nothing astronomical, just what's legally owed). She's found another job but she's hurting, she really is. I just want this to go well x

OP’s posts: |
notapizzaeater Mon 13-Jul-20 23:31:40

Can you raise a minimum wage claim separately through the Gov web site?

lifesalongsong Mon 13-Jul-20 23:31:52

I remember reading your previous thread, you might be better to link it so that you don't have to explain it all again, you're already having to repeat a lot of what you posted in detail already

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:32:14

Some of you guys have recommended ACAS. We're in the process already. I have already sent mum's conciliator a breakdown of what we believe is owed which they will pass on to her ex employer.

My main concern is that they will reject it and it will end up at tribunal where neither mum nor I can afford legal representation.

OP’s posts: |
LetsBeSensible Mon 13-Jul-20 23:33:48

@Charlieandthechocolatecake good luck you are doing the right thing.
How many years did she work there?
Has ACAS started early conciliation.
Costs are very very rarely awarded against the employee/claimant at employment tribunal. Even where their case is quite nonsensical. I really would not worry about that happening. It’s so rare.

Also- the employer is at fault for not giving a written statement of terms and conditions within 2 months of her starting work (as the law would have been) as well as at fault for not issuing pay slips. None of that reflects badly on your mum at all.

First things first please ensure that you get the ET claim in on time, even if you just tick the boxes on the form and write a few words. F you miss the deadline then that’s it.

The company may well offer a financial settlement later in the process, it would save them time, money and embarrassment to pay her off so don’t worry too much, you have time to get CAB advice or some law society advice. Also does she have a home insurance which includes legal cover? She could call them for advice.

You could get more general advice on going through the tribunal process on the HR boards, tribunals are very helpful and patient if it’s lay people presenting.

Busymum45 Mon 13-Jul-20 23:36:35

I am amazed she's had no payslips, for this long? It is legal requirement ! The P60 will give all.pay and tax information so is proof.

LetsBeSensible Mon 13-Jul-20 23:36:55

@Charlieandthechocolatecake the early conciliation might not resolve it at this stage but conciliation can happen again after a claim.
Just get prepared for if you need to fill out the ET form after conciliation ends as you will only have a month -1 day.
I’d pay your mum a few grand to go away with a claim like hers!!!!

areallthenamesusedup Mon 13-Jul-20 23:40:32

www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you

Try this. You may find local lawyer offering pro bono work.

But before you speak to anyone, check they are registered with law society.

BUT GET YOUR ET claim in. If you miss the deadline there is nothing they will do to help.

By the way, if you do go to ET, they are used to self defendants and will try help you. Its not like scary high court wig stuff smile

lyralalala Mon 13-Jul-20 23:42:28

Charlieandthechocolatecake

Some of you guys have recommended ACAS. We're in the process already. I have already sent mum's conciliator a breakdown of what we believe is owed which they will pass on to her ex employer.

My main concern is that they will reject it and it will end up at tribunal where neither mum nor I can afford legal representation.

The fact they can afford good legal representation may be a good thing.

No contract
No payslip
Below minimum wage
Dodgy redundancy procedure

A good legal rep will likely be brutally honest with them and point out there are a fair few issues with their conduct

ostinato Mon 13-Jul-20 23:45:00

You can self represent at an employment tribunal. It’s also very unusual to have costs awarded to either side...basically an employer has to argue that the claim was “vexatious” which is unlikely to succeed given what you’ve said.

Justaboy Mon 13-Jul-20 23:45:46

Was she propeley employed by a company or was she just working for someone and was supposed to be self employed?

Cant think for the life of me any employer wants a tribuanl!!

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