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Made redundant without notice. No holiday pay, no notice pay, no redundancy pay.

(78 Posts)
Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 22:25:35

I have made a previous thread about this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3949848-Employer-closed-at-shutdown-and-reopened-at-a-different-location

I received some brilliant advice.

I'm now at the stage where I have passed on my mum's previous employer info as well as a breakdown of what we believe she is entitled to.

The nutshell is in the title. I was advised to seek advice from CAB but it's impossible to get hold of anybody sonar this stage we've asked for what's in the title.

That said, mum has never had a contract or payslips throughout her employment. She has paid tax and NI and has P60s as well as a P45.

My AIBU is, am I being unreasonable to think that if mum can't provide absolute proof of what she's owed, if it gets to the employment tribunal stage, she won't have a leg to stand on?

Without payslips or a contract, she can't prove she hasn't been paid annual leave. All she has is 100's of texts between her and her employer.

Ines feeling confident until I read that if it goes to an employment tribunal, mum might have to bear the costs if she loses.

I'm not sure whether we should nip it in the bud or not?

OP’s posts: |
Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 22:26:16

I did post on the previous thread but didn't get any replies!

OP’s posts: |
BigChocFrenzy Mon 13-Jul-20 22:36:25

You might do better to post in

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters

MitziK Mon 13-Jul-20 22:42:03

BigChocFrenzy

You might do better to post in

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters

But before you go, IIRC, it's an offence for an employer not to issue wages slips showing all deductions. So it won't help them be believed and she could take them to Tribunal on that in itself.

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 22:43:42

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy

Posted there just now. I posted in AIBU because that's wherey original thread was so I was hoping somebody that was on it would see 😁

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Rosspoldarkssaddle Mon 13-Jul-20 22:47:19

It is a legal requirement to provide a staff member with a statement of pay and deduction on or before the date the payment has been made. One strike against the employer. I also read that a contract containing the terms of employment should be provided within 13 weeks of employment start date. Worth getting on to .gov website and checking employer obligations.

Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 22:49:30

Pay slips are a legal requirement as Mitzi said. So not having them makes her case better, not worse.

rosiejaune Mon 13-Jul-20 22:53:40

And if they haven't given her payslips she can claim the last 13 weeks of deductions back from them. So put that in the claim too.

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 22:56:27

Thank you @Rosspoldarkssaddle and @Comefromaway

I've gathered that too. Its just awkward because we're basing what mum's owed on her hours worked per week and hourly pay.

I'm concerned that if they refuse to pay the absolute basic of what she's owed, she'll be asked to provide proof which she doesn't have.

She's in her 50's and on minimum wage. She didn't even know she was entitled to anything until I told her.

I'm worried that without solid proof she'll have to pay legal costs for her millionaire employer (I know that for certain).

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Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 22:59:26

Not only is she entitled to payslips if she is paid hourly since last April it’s been a legal requirement to show an itemisation of hours worked.

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 22:59:45

@rosiejaune when you say deductions, what do you mean? Sorry! Mum has never kept records of anything. I know how many hours she worked per week but that's it. Sometimes they told her not to come in with little notice but she never made note of anything.

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Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:00:58

@Comefromaway thank you. I read that too. That said, nowhere does it say it's illegal not to provide payslips.

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Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:02:22

Sorry @Comefromaway I meant in terms of her claiming compensation because she can't provide exact figures without those documents.

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RedRumTheHorse Mon 13-Jul-20 23:03:01

Her payslips should detail her pay, her NI, her tax, her holiday pay and any other deductions.

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:04:27

@RedRumTheHorse she's never had any payslips in the 3 years of working there.

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RedRumTheHorse Mon 13-Jul-20 23:05:40

If they communicate with her through text messages, which is in writing, about her hours then that's proof of her working hours. You need to find a way of downloading as many text messages as possible and putting them in a document.

notapizzaeater Mon 13-Jul-20 23:06:56

Has she not had P60s etc, how did she know she was getting paid correctly ?

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:07:15

If it does go to tribunal, would her employer need to show proof they have given her a contract (signed by her) and payslips (with proof they have been sent or received by her). I'm really worried that because they're very rich, they will get the best legal advice which mum can't afford.

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Queenie8 Mon 13-Jul-20 23:08:03

ACAS might be worthwhile call?

Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 23:08:36

www.gov.uk/government/publications/payslip-policy-a-guide-to-the-2019-legislation

“New legislation came into force in April 2019 requiring all employers to:

provide payslips to all workers
show hours on payslips where the pay varies by the amount of time worked“

Her bank statements are proof of how much & when she was paid. If you have a record of her hours along with those figures and they haven’t provided payslips then that’s your proof. The only difficulty will be not knowing exactly how much has been deducted (tax/NI/auto enrolment pension)

If they’ve been deducting tax & NI then their payroll software will have records along with RTI submissions to HMRC.

RHTawneyonabus Mon 13-Jul-20 23:09:01

How was she paid? If she can show money being transferred from his account to hers that’s surely proof of employment

Queenie8 Mon 13-Jul-20 23:10:20

Your mum can view her NI contributions on the .gov website. She'll need her NI number and to set up a gateway account.

She should also be able to claim for benefits too. Call jobcentre+

Charlieandthechocolatecake Mon 13-Jul-20 23:10:26

@notapizzaeater she's had P60s but she's not the brightest person. I can't really explain it. It only came to my attention last summer when they wouldn't pay her mileage. I asked to see her contract. That's when she said she never had one. I encouraged her to ask for one but she didn't want to rock the boat.

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Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 23:11:08

Previous legislation to the 2019 one gave the right to employees to have payslips. The 2019 legislation extended the right to all workers and added the itemisation for hourly paid workers.

Comefromaway Mon 13-Jul-20 23:13:46

So her P60 will show her gross pay for the year and how much was deducted for tax & NI. That’s good. It will show her tax code so you can roughly work out what her deductions should be each week from that. (If she’s over retirement age she might be in a different NI category though).

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