AIBU to think that society generally has

[Bubblebu]

just got much much much worse in the last 5 - 10 years?

or am I thinking far too simplistically about this?

i just mean in the way people treat / ignore each other; no support networks (apart from online) and thinking most people really to live to work not work to live (ie just survive) compared with life in the past where there was more balance.

[Paperdolly]

I’m beginning to despair. I had this idea that the lockdown would teach us how valuable we are to each other. Nope...there are still the selfish, self serving out there who take advantage of others’ weakness and/or compliance to requests. Look at the Durdle Door situation a couple of weeks ago. Humanity’s inhumanity to its fellow man.

[Bubblebu]

Thanks paperdolly - perhaps I did not contextualise well enough in my post.

Yes I agree with you about the lockdown - so much talk at the start about people being more supportive of each other but I do look at various things which have happened since and thought "sadly not".

But it goes wider than that - just the unfriendliness and / or loneliness of society now. And the seemingly on and on contexts of every day life which seem to mean the important things just never happen.

No time for family, contact with other people predominantly by screen (so hours and hours on a screen all day long) the drugs, the violence, all online news just endless bad news and in your face all the time, what feels like the sad demise of freedom of speech for fear of offending anyone and everyone, decades of what feels like constantly incompetent and / or corrupt government, the barrage of messages trying to sell you something left right and centre and using your data to do that - I could go on and on.

Didn't really mean this to become a Victor Meldrew thread and apologies for that. I just wanted to see if it was just me. Happy for those who disagree to point out the positives!

[betteliefsen]

Yes, massively so and this has made it worse.

[user1456324865563]

Bearing in mind in the past freedom of speech was used to permit blatant discrimination and abuse... I think with anything when you try to correct it sometimes you can go too far in the opposite direction and need to correct, but that doesn't mean things were fine before and it was wrong to change.

Violence isn't new, it's more visible due to 24/7 news reporting and - for example - the fact that things like domestic violence are not brushed under the carpet as a "private" matter so much anymore.

I do agree it's certainly more noticeable to me how individualistic our culture is and although it has some positives I am not sure I like it that much now I can see the consequences. We are too extreme.

[Babyroobs]

I just don't think anyone really cares about each other much. When I was a teenager I was involved in all sorts of things- animal rights, human rights, always fighting for something or protesting against something, spending my weekends working or volunteering. My own kids just don't seem to have the empathy for others or be bothered or passionate about anything outside of their own little bubble. I haven't brought them up like that though I hope.

[Mypathtriedtokillme]

I actually think society as a whole is a lot more accepting of differences.

The drugs and violence is actually a lot less than in the past but is in a 24 hr new cycle so seems more prominent.
Violence against women and children is now an actual crime not just Family issues or just how he gets after a few drinks.

Sadly I think we tend to get caught in an echo chamber of social media that amplifies the negitive.

[Bubblebu]

user14 thanks for your post it has given me things to consider. yes I do accept that everything was not rosy in the "good old days" and it all comes in a context.

maybe I am just getting old. or maybe it was my experience when I was growing up and starting work which mean some things genuinely bewilder me a bit now and maybe in a way which means I am becoming old fashioned.

one example is the "me too" movement. It has not escaped my notice that throughout the 10 years of my first job out of university / law school the law firm I worked at I was consistently harassed sexually by the senior management and I found it hellish but accepted it because that was just the accepted culture and all of the women there were too.

And yet now with the "me too" movement it somehow leaves me cold and all I can see coming out of it is that a lot of men in the circles I move in are just literally terrified of have a friendly flirt in a non creepy complimentary way with women they know in a way they used to (or at least I experienced) - and I don't think it is because I have now become a haggard ugly old witch!!! Lol - (or maybe I am failing to notice something in my bathroom mirror!!!

But seriously as you say it feels like the pendulum has swung too far on that and other things. It is not that that movement did not need to happen -- it did, but I struggle not to see negative side effects of this and other types of things.

maybe it is just me.

[KitKat2020]

For me, I find that it’s screens and 24hr news cycles etc. that reduced quality of life. The constant feed of bad news.

In my area, drugs and violence are actually in decline. Investment was made to services, rather than policing- (and this was before #defund the police became a slogan! ). It works, and my city is held up as a success story in reducing violence. So there is hope.

In general, work life balance has improved for most people. No more incredibly long shifts down mines or in factories. There is better employment law now too, so working practices are safer. I’m glad we get to keep the working time directive and hope it doesn’t change.

I very much agree with your comment about the government. They don’t even try to hide it now, which is a slap in the face.

[betteliefsen]

It's all me me me and consumerism in a too capitalist society.

[dayslikethese1]

Surely less sexual harassment is a good thing? Isn't it a good thing that those jwn you knew are questioning their actions and the way they relate to women OP?

I think things have been bad since 2010 in terms of cuts to services, austerity and demonisation of disabled ppl and benefits claimants. Also employers seem to be treating staff worse over time with pay freezes, shit contracts etc.

[dayslikethese1]

*those men

[Bubblebu]

Mypath

Yes. Social media and the whole idea of "fake news" (and what feels like fake everything some days) is something I on and off struggle not to let affect me.

I have primary school children about to embark at secondary school and things like out of control porn at secondary school terrifies me. Maybe because there was none of that when I was growing up (or at least not circulated universally and in a way in which I am advised my children will never be able to avoid).

You are probably right about violence being no more than previously we just do not hear about it. Yes I agree the changes to the attitudes to domestic violence are excellent but then I get the impression (perhaps wrongly) that many refuges for women and children have been shut down and although I am thankfully not in that situation I don't feel 100% confident that all police forces deal with DV in a universal way.

I do confess to feeling we are heading into an economic vortex as a result of corona virus don't know the answer to that one.

I agree that young people do not have "causes" like they seemed to do when I was young/teenager. Or if they do it feels more around silencing attitudes across the board in favour of other attitudes rather than any real changes happening in society.

I don't know - perhaps I am just confused because of the 24/7 news bombardment. And on the subject of news, I used to feel when you watched it on TV or read in the paper it was just that - "news". And now it does feel to me out of control "please think this" "please believe this" which leaves me exhausted and confused.

[Bubblebu]

Absolutely yes less sexual harassment is an excellent thing.

If I could go back in a time tardis and be told I would NOT be harassed at work I would have been so much happier then.

It is just the side effects of those changed attitudes. And it might be that I am over estimating those side effects and they are not a bad thing in the context of the gains made by those changed attitudes.

[Bubblebu]

KitKat - glad you agree ref Government. I have regularly wondered "well was there all this corruption all along but we just never heard about it" but then I look at recent performance even in the last year and think, nope - they just do what they want and they really do not care and seem to think they are irreplaceable (and sadly I think they are correct due to my perception of lack of voters power - and yes I have always voted as I think it is so important)

[Bubblebu]

days

I agree with all your comments except for the "questioning their previous attitudes"

maybe I am cynical but I don't think their attitudes have genuinely changed. It is more that they know they cannot get away with it now, not that they no longer think they should get away with it.

I guess the reason for my above attitude is because if their attitudes HAD changed it would be reflected in other ways too eg better promotion and equal pay for women etc which it has not. And jobs for the boys in Gmt nepotism etc still as rife as ever in my perception.

[KitKat2020]

I’ve still got hope for the power of voters. I think more people are realising they are being manipulated. There were more first time voters registered in the last 3 elections that before too.

[KitKat2020]

I meant to type.. last 2 elections

[Bubblebu]

maybe KitKat

but that is not to say the choice of who to vote for was in terms of leaders was better...….

did it not just reflect how very divided society has become about issues such as Brexit or what the media manage to headline in terms of what people do NOT want (eg anti Semitism - and by the way I do think that was an important issue to uncover so voters knew about it)

eg the whole aggressive and stirred up by the media "snowflake" generation verses the "OK boomer" generation. Just depressing.

[Pelleas]

Despite the utter irony of writing this on a chat forum, I firmly believe the internet has ruined society. Not at first - not in the early days when the internet was the domain of geeks and misfits - the internet was great until about 1995 - but, from then on, gradually, everyone cottoned onto it, and it became a tool for the things that had always been society's scourge - bullying, boasting, one-upmanship. Life just gets worse and worse, as it always has done, but so much more quickly, thanks to how well we are connected now.

[Pelleas]

... I will add that Mumsnet is one of the last bastions of intelligence on the internet, which is why I come here. I may not agree with every viewpoint expressed here, but I respect people who can argue logically rather than relying on rhetoric and memes and fluffy unicorns.

[Pelleas]

I will add in mitigation of my ramblings that I'm pissed as a fart.

[Bubblebu]

Pelleas

I agree.

I also think it is not just the 24/7 being bombarded with news / fake news / social media so I can say whatever I like with impunity (always negative and often bullying etc).

In my experience it is also the other way round. So the internet means you are often expected to be "on" it yourself 24/7.

I say this in the context of my own personal career / employment.

But yes I do recognise the utter irony that I am sat her at 2.38am UK time posting on a chat board and looking at other sites (not urgent) when I should be sleeping.

And the being awake to reply to work emails feeds the insomnia which feeds my current activity (i.e. not essential but once you have done it a few times your body clock is totally messed up.... etc)

Not everyone does that but in my circles I am certainly not alone.

[Bubblebu]

Pelleas :) :)

I remember once replying to a romantic interest's email at 3am in the morning. None of our emails (including mine at 3am) were in any way controversial and I was not drunk.

However he was an old school type and the next day he (rightly in my mind) said words to the effect of "what the heck are you doing replying to non essential emails at 3am". It was purely the timing of my email (not the contents) he was incredulous about.

Soon after he kinda dumped me, and on reflection I do not blame him

[Bubblebu]

Oh
And another one of my personal "cannot stand it" of the last decade or so.

Reality TV of any and every sort.
Yuck.

[Pelleas]

Thankfully I am in the middle of a fortnight's annual leave. My laptop is hidden - and I mean that literally, it's somewhere I'd have to go to lengths to get at and where burglars wouldn't find. Otherwise I'd be tempted to check my emails during my social-distancing-friendly 'staycation' (faugh).

Normally at this time on a Sunday I would be desperately battling insomnia in the hope of confronting Monday in a vaguely passable state. Now I know I will fall asleep quickly because I've drunk enough to fell an elephant and thank goodness I can sleep as late as I need to.