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to think the Foreign Secretary / Deputy Prime Minister should know a little bit of the history about Take a knee

(310 Posts)
chomalungma Thu 18-Jun-20 11:17:04

twitter.com/matthewchampion/status/1273534016570957824

No - it's not from Game of Thrones. Even though he said he didn't know where it came from, maybe it was Game of Thrones.

I know that Colin Kaepernick took a knee during NFL games and this led to massive repercussions with Trump getting involved.

I know now that there is more of a history with Martin Luther King - but it's the recent history I am more aware of.

I do know that it's not Game of Thrones though.

But this is the same guy who didn't know the importance of the Dover - Calais ferry crossing.

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chomalungma Thu 18-Jun-20 12:10:57

Dominic Raab
@DominicRaab
To be clear: I have full respect for the Black Lives Matter movement, and the issues driving them. If people wish to take a knee, that’s their choice and I respect it. We all need to come together to tackle any discrimination and social injustice.

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slartibarti Thu 18-Jun-20 12:25:57

There's a long history of kneeling being associated with subservience. The BLM meaning is comparatively recent.
I think Raab was saying what many of the "silent majority" are thinking.

chomalungma Thu 18-Jun-20 12:40:30

I think Raab was saying what many of the "silent majority" are thinking

And what would that be?

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Bugslydoo Thu 18-Jun-20 12:50:57

Gotta say when I first read about people taking the knee I immediately thought of game of thrones 🤷🏼‍♀️

augustusglupe Thu 18-Jun-20 12:52:06

I see taking the knee as a subservient gesture, so wouldn’t do it for anyone.
But if Dom insisted....grin

slartibarti Thu 18-Jun-20 12:53:16

And what would that be?

As Raab said, taking the knee felt like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipation.

The original meaning of kneeling (subjugation) is the one most people are familiar with so many are likely to agree with him.

chomalungma Thu 18-Jun-20 13:04:47

s Raab said, taking the knee felt like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipatio

Do you not think that people who think that might be a bit confused as to why people are taking the knee now - and could think just a bit before commenting on it?

The Colin Kaepernick issue was reasonably well publicised - and there is an associaton with Taking a Knee and BLM.

Maybe Dominic Raab didn't know that. But it's not like people haven't been taking a knee recently and he should the intelligence to realise it has nothing to do with subjugation and more to do with the BLM movement.

It's been explained in The Sun and the Daily Express.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1290655/Take-the-Knee-meaning-what-does-Take-the-Knee-mean

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AgnesNaismith Thu 18-Jun-20 13:06:38

I agree with him 🤷‍♀️

How is kneeling going to heal systemic and daily racism? How about we actually do something about it and ensure inclusion and opportunities are available across the board.

chomalungma Thu 18-Jun-20 13:07:29

I wonder if it even crossed his mind to ask someone why people were taking the knee?

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thecatsthecats Thu 18-Jun-20 13:08:24

Blimey, if in doubt, Google it!

chomalungma Thu 18-Jun-20 13:08:49

AgnesNaismith

I agree with him 🤷‍♀️

How is kneeling going to heal systemic and daily racism? How about we actually do something about it and ensure inclusion and opportunities are available across the board.

Because it shows solidarity.

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FluffyHippo Thu 18-Jun-20 13:17:19

I can see his point (sort of).

Rather than 'take the knee' - which is an empty, pointless gesture only useful for appeasing white guilt - people should be addressing the structural racism in our society and actively working to challenge and dismantle it.

You can kneel all you want but it won't change a fucking thing unless you're willing to fight for a more equal society.

Just another meaningless gesture to make you feel better (like clapping for the NHS and black squares on your social media).

FluffyHippo Thu 18-Jun-20 13:18:09

Or talking about 'solidarity'.

cariadlet Thu 18-Jun-20 13:18:34

Kneeling has been a sign of subservience for centuries; Dominic Raab is quite right about that.

But for any senior politician, let alone the Foreign Secretary, to be unaware of it's current meaning and the origin of the association with BLM is shocking.

The reason that Colin Kaepernick chose to take a knee is that he wanted to protest against racial discrimination and he wanted his protest to be highly visible. He chose to take a knee when spectators and other players were standing for the American National Anthem; he didn't feel that he could stand for the anthem while black people were regularly being murdered by police officers.

He has suffered a huge amount of personal abuse and his career has been ruined because of this simple peaceful action. Taking a knee has become a sign of solidarity with him and then with the BLM movement because of his actions.

It would take two minutes for anybody curious about why people kneel at BLM protests etc to google this. Dominic Raab has no excuse for his ignorance.

otterturk Thu 18-Jun-20 13:19:35

I think the silent majority agree with him. You don't need to kneel - a sign of submission - to a movement to support racial equality.

lyralalala Thu 18-Jun-20 13:22:13

Dominic Rabb is our foreign secretary. For him to not know where it comes from is ridiculous.

The number of times that man makes himself look stupid when he opens his mouth it’s baffling that he’s in such a senior position.

NeverHadANickname Thu 18-Jun-20 13:24:05

It is something that is generally widely reported on in the US and so has brought about a lot of attention for the reasons behind it. More so because of the way people who choose to do it have been treated. While it might not be actively 'doing something' it is making more people aware and hopefully look into why they are choosing to do this.

Alonelonelyloner Thu 18-Jun-20 13:24:37

It's not often I agree with a Tory govt minister, but he has a point.

The worldwide gesture of taking the knee is one of either submission (to God) or subservience (to a master), BLM is a recent thing and it's meaning from a generalised perspective is one of solidarity.

DGRossetti Thu 18-Jun-20 13:30:31

Personally, when I first saw it (before I read about it) I took it to be turning the tables of presumed subservience back on the world. Sort of thing Gandhi might have suggested in the vein of "if you enemy strikes you offer them the other cheek".

And frankly, despite volumes of explanation since, that's how I still view it. And it's a very powerful visual and peaceful statement.

Disquieted1 Thu 18-Jun-20 13:31:37

Taking a knee, showing solidarity, raising awareness etc are all well and good, but ultimately people have to actually do something.
It would be much better if everyone taking a knee actually committed to making the life of a single black person that little bit better. Give them a job; invite them into your friendship circle; help them financially; post leaflets in support of their political candidacy; invite their kids round for playdates; raise money for a youth club; stand as a local councillor ....something practical, on the ground.

houseofstark Thu 18-Jun-20 13:31:54

Taking the Knee was a way of refusing to stand and show respect for the US national anthem given the way black people aren’t given respect.

So unless there’s an anthem playing, taking the knee feels a bit pointless.

Just my opinion and I appreciate things have moved on significantly since taking the knee started.

TheRealMcKenna Thu 18-Jun-20 13:43:12

As others have said, the gesture was made as a refusal to show pride in a nation with a perceived problem of police brutality against POC. Showing solidarity with that is fine, but it can send out a message that you agree with the sentiment.

Now it is starting to feel like a compelled gesture “do this or you’re a racist and you’ll be publicly shamed on Twitter”.

Peter Hitchens is someone I have less than no time for, but seeing some recent ‘shaming’ posts on Twitter (including the video of him being followed by protestors) is something else.

WildIrishRose1 Thu 18-Jun-20 13:46:58

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical, but this Raab story feels like a distraction from the other political story breaking today that the contact tracing app is no longer a government priority. So says Lord Bethall, the man in charge of the the contact tracing app. hmm

chomalungma Thu 18-Jun-20 13:48:15

aking a knee, showing solidarity, raising awareness etc are all well and good, but ultimately people have to actually do something

That's true.

It is surprising though that Dominic Raab had no idea what its meaning was.

I don't doubt that the silent majority in the UK have no idea about the recent Take a knee and its links to the NFL.

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