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American police out of control. Shooting trigger warning

(22 Posts)
Changename5000 Thu 11-Jun-20 16:57:31

I have been forwarded this video of a man and woman who did nothing wrong..but were shot by police anyway.

AIBU to think American police are out of control

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ChangeThePassword Thu 11-Jun-20 17:00:00

Is that the wrong video?

Changename5000 Thu 11-Jun-20 17:04:33

Seems it has cut to the end..

Let me see if I can find from the beginning

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Soubriquet Thu 11-Jun-20 17:04:48


Changename5000 Thu 11-Jun-20 17:06:01

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Changename5000 Thu 11-Jun-20 17:08:40

The name of the name who was shot was Daniel Shaver.

The police officer was aquited of his murder..

I cried when I watched this video

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BobbieDraper Thu 11-Jun-20 17:19:58

Daniel Shaver had children. They lost their dad because a murderer got a job as a cop and played a fatal game of Simon says.

I honestly have to wonder how the american justice system has gone so wrong for him to have been acquitted (and then given early retirement with a $31,000 a year pension for the rest of his life).

Changename5000 Thu 11-Jun-20 17:24:28

I know the video is a few years old, but it's the first time I have seen it.

I was so shocked when he was shot, he did everything he was asked. I think that officer was going to shoot him no matter what.

It was murder plain and simple

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BobbieDraper Thu 11-Jun-20 17:44:11

It was the classic "I thought he was reach for a gun" and he got away with murder.

Sometimes, you genuinely think "that did look like he was reaching for a gun" but not in the video. He was clearly confused about the "hands in the air and crawl" because those are opposite instructions (and a drunk person will struggle with it). He was crying and scared and clearly not a threat, but an american jury watched that and thought "cop was right; that guy asked to get shot".

Its not just the police; its the while damn country. The police dont let them away with it; the juries do.

MashedPotatoBrainz Thu 11-Jun-20 17:50:12

A lawyer in America has been collating evidence of police brutality just in the last few days. He's put all the video evidence on one thread on twitter. I've been reading and watching like shock

Clavinova Thu 11-Jun-20 18:12:44

The police don't let them away with it; the juries do.

I think you should point out that the hotel receptionist called the police because the victim was seen pointing a gun out of his bedroom window - the jury would have been aware of that.

BobbieDraper Thu 11-Jun-20 18:23:23

Yes, point a shot gun. A large weapon. It was very very clear in that video that he did not have a large weapon on his person.

And that officer should have held him in place by pointinghis weapon, as he was doing, and sent the second office in to handcuff him. But instead, the pantomime the cop put him through escalated the situation and he murdered him.

The officers could have de-escalated that situation a number of ways, but they choose shouting and fear and high nerves and convoluted instructions given to an intoxicated, sobbing man.

And and jury watched it and thought his behaviour was acceptable. It wasnt.

Police in america are not trained to de-escalate, and the vast majority of people who end up in bury boxes see nothing wrong with it.

The shot gun also turned out to be a pellet gun.

Clavinova Thu 11-Jun-20 18:41:08

The shot gun also turned out to be a pellet gun.

How would the police know what type of gun it was in advance or whether the man had a hand gun as well? The gun culture in the US is as much to blame I think - 'trigger happy' cops are often frightened of being shot themselves.

BobbieDraper Thu 11-Jun-20 18:47:27


Which I why I did say that sometimes you watch these and think "well that cop really looked in danger". This video is not one of those.

That man was living face down on the ground with his legs crossed and fingers knotted behind his back. He was contained. At that point, you handcuff. You dont play Simon says with ridiculously barked out orders.

I don't understand why you're arguing for them. A senator even recently said that the American people still mostly trust cops no matter what; you could give them solid evidence (like this video) bd they will dismiss it because they do not want to accept that their trust in their police has been misplaced.

This is a known problem.

user1972548274 Thu 11-Jun-20 18:55:36

Juries rarely convict murderous police officers - in the UK as well. Our police don't murder and assault at the same rate as over there, but it still happens and they still skip away without consequences.

Jury trials are just popularity contests at best. Which side tells the "best" story, who does the jury not like the look of / sympathise with, character witnesses, which pre-existing prejudices have the jury brought with them, how much ignorance can be brought to bear in their decisions ( "I don't think she was raped because she didn't cry enough/cried too much giving evidence")...

It's a bloody insane system to call "justice".

user1972548274 Thu 11-Jun-20 19:01:23

You dont play Simon says with ridiculously barked out orders.

Unless you became a police officer because you get off on the power and ability to control others. And you operate in an environment where police officers are encouraged to "dominate" and protected from the consequences any other member of society would face for abusing human rights.

Then it makes perfect sense.

The really sickening part to me is the way their colleagues shield and protect these murderers and abusers. Kind of diminishes any possibility of taking comfort from the idea of justice or "bad apples" that can be dealt with when the entire force leaps to defend their murdering and abusive colleagues.

Clavinova Thu 11-Jun-20 19:17:51

I don't understand why you're arguing for them.

I thought it was a bit misleading not to mention the gun sighting from the hotel receptionist - how many people point guns out of hotel windows in the UK? George Floyd clearly posed no threat at the time of his death - Daniel Shaver posed an unknown threat. From the newspaper reports he did reach for the waistband of his trousers, but with hindsight this was because he felt his trousers falling down after dragging along the floor.

There is a gun culture in the US - four police officers were shot a few days ago in St. Louis during the protests. The St. Louis Police Commissioner (a black man for context) said;

"They were just standing there. So some coward fired shots at officers, and now we have four in the hospital...and thank God they're alive. Can we make some sense out of this?...This is horrible."

itsgettingweird Thu 11-Jun-20 19:43:03

Who filmed it?

I also found that chilling.

Whatever they did for police to be called their treatment and threats make it harder for the accused to follow instructions.

And the biggest issue I see that is police brutality is completely undermining the justice system.

Both with police acquitted of violent offences against suspects.

But also suspects becoming hero's when their actions did warrant police intervention in the first place.

There is no balance and it makes a huge mockery of a whole institution and system.

I e often thought that policing by consent can sometimes lead to the issues we have in this country. But I'd much prefer it to threaten and shoot now and provide your excuses later.

BobbieDraper Thu 11-Jun-20 20:19:13


The suspects who are killed or brutalised by the police dont become heroes. They become victims.

You can be a criminal and still be a victim.

itsgettingweird Thu 11-Jun-20 21:53:41

Maybe hero was a bad choice of words.

But with GF case this was a troubled man with a history of criminal activity and prison sentences - including armed robbery with a pregnant woman as his victim.

What the police did was brutal and unnecessary murder. Their job is to protect. Once cuffed he should have been charged and put through the criminal justice system.

His murder has made people look at black oppression, the police force and also has had positive change.

But he's described and an angel who changed the world (or something similar at his funeral). The change the world bit is where I got hero from.

Same with this video. When the man was facedown he should have been cuffed and searched. Then taken to trial. Then his crime would have been the focus.

Instead - you again have the criminal turned into the victim and an increasing gulf in the relationship between the police and society.

Notmyfirstusername Thu 11-Jun-20 22:10:52

I was thinking about the concept of the perfect victim when getting angry about the sexual assault/rape stats. Be a virgin, how dare you wear matching underwear, be an 8 year old child and the judge says you're no angel ffs. There is no perfect victim, just the right time/ place group of people willing to listen rather than excuse.

Waiting for a perfect victim to come along is a great way to retain the status quo, and even when they do, as in the case of Sandy Hook for gun control or Tamir Rice for BLM, the same people who argue about GF'S criminal record will just use another reason/ excuse as to why now is not the time.
We need to want to change.

Changename5000 Thu 11-Jun-20 22:21:12

It was a body worn camera

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