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To say that violence is never justified?

(83 Posts)
hibbledobble Sat 06-Jun-20 22:46:31

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52949014

There are shocking levels of violence against officers currently, this is not ok.

OP’s posts: |
PicsInRed Sat 06-Jun-20 22:56:43

How many outraged threads have you started about the state sanctioned murdering of black people?

GoldenZigZag Sat 06-Jun-20 23:01:37

So you can understand brutal murder in broad daylight but draw the line at rioting? OK.

Nellydean21 Sat 06-Jun-20 23:02:39

How many threads have you started about police violence towards black people? . Or miscarriages of justice against Irish people? Or the many unjustifiable violence caused to millions of indigenous peoples around the world caused by the British state?

hibbledobble Sat 06-Jun-20 23:04:13

I have said that any violence is not ok, obviously that includes murder. Attacking officers in London is not justified either.

OP’s posts: |
Glowcat Sat 06-Jun-20 23:05:33

*’As London's demonstration thinned out in the early evening, BBC correspondent Chi Chi Izundu said some demonstrators started throwing bottles outside Downing Street and a riderless police horse bolted, trampling a demonstrator.
Police said four people were arrested at the protest over the day.’*

That’s from your link.

Nellydean21 Sat 06-Jun-20 23:05:45

That article he one you have posted reports on peaceful protests around the world and mentions ONE incidence if bottle throwing in London. Coukd you better evidence your point? Have you read it. grin

MrsPeacockInTheLibrary Sat 06-Jun-20 23:06:49

Do you like being able to vote? As a human? As a woman?

Have you heard of the Chartist movement?

Krazynights34 Sat 06-Jun-20 23:07:13

Ever justified?
Or just if it’s against police?

GoldenZigZag Sat 06-Jun-20 23:07:30

Can you point us to your earlier threads then? And explain why you only mentioned the police in your OP?

I'm not being arsey here, I genuinely think you need to go away and do some self reflection on why your first thought was for the officers.

NewNameGuy Sat 06-Jun-20 23:07:42

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Glowcat Sat 06-Jun-20 23:07:47

Unless things have gotten dramatically worse that doesn’t sound like a ‘shocking’ level of violence.

PicsInRed Sat 06-Jun-20 23:08:12

We see you, OP.

hibbledobble Sat 06-Jun-20 23:08:20

The police horse that bolted resulted in the officer who rode it being thrown against a lamp post and falling to the ground. There are many more videos online showing the violence, including bikes and other items being thrown at police horses.

OP’s posts: |
LetsAllGoOnHoliday Sat 06-Jun-20 23:08:28

Over a million people have protested in Hong Kong.

Not one arrest.

janeskettle Sat 06-Jun-20 23:08:33

Yes, I do think that's an unreasonable thing to say, unless you are a committed pacifist in all situations.

For example, violence in self-defence is acceptable; some wars are just.

Experimenopause Sat 06-Jun-20 23:09:58

DumbledoreAskedCalmly

Do you like being able to vote? As a human? As a woman?

Have you heard of the Chartist movement?

There is something in this.

GoldenZigZag Sat 06-Jun-20 23:11:17

Will you be rescinding your right to vote OP, given the role of violent protest in the sufferage movement? Or are you only pro-violence when it benefits you?

hibbledobble Sat 06-Jun-20 23:18:51

I am committed to pacifism in all situations, and I know that having studied history that woman's suffrage was won in large part due to the hard work of women during the first world war. The level of 'whatabouterry' here is rediculous.

OP’s posts: |
MrsPeacockInTheLibrary Sat 06-Jun-20 23:19:07

Here is a list of the sort of thing I mean. Interesting to find it in KS3 history!

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zpwp34j/revision/6

Basic human rights have a long history of being suppressed - and humans driven to all kinds of protests. As this list shows, they were often punished brutally.

hibbledobble Sat 06-Jun-20 23:20:48

And it is possible to protest peacefully. Violent protest just serves to alienate a lite of people.

OP’s posts: |
janeskettle Sat 06-Jun-20 23:20:58

Violence wasn't a terribly effective tactic in terms of gaining women's right to vote.

Civic movements, and WW1, had a greater impact on women gaining the vote (where they did - women have been historically oppressed for millenium, and for some women in our world, the right to vote is relatively recent).

Things that make good movies aren't always historically sound.

Women didn't get the vote because some women put bombs in letter boxes and smashed shop windows.

Hermagsjesty Sat 06-Jun-20 23:22:09

“Riots are the voice of the unheard” Martin Luther King Junior.

It is not the fault of those protesting that it has come to this.

MrsPeacockInTheLibrary Sat 06-Jun-20 23:23:25

You yourself have stated the emphatic, interrogative position: violence is never justified?

It is not whataboutery if you have invited debate in the spirit of asking a question. Or, don't bother asking if you have already made up your mind.

janeskettle Sat 06-Jun-20 23:23:43

hiddledobble

I so admire your pacifism. I understand that for true pacifists, there's a level of sacrifice in disavowing violence co comprehensively.

I support you in your consistent call for non-violence, though I am not brave enough to be a pacifist myself.

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