To wonder what constitutes a puppy farm

[fourteenohnine]

There has been a fairly high profile case local to me where several pregnant bitches along with a litter (I think just the one, I could be wrong) were stolen from a breeder's.

Someone I am friends with on Facebook was very upset, saying this was where her dog was from. Yet there are other accusations that it is a puppy farm.

It is also registered with the council and has five stars.

I suppose what I'm asking is up to a point, is a puppy farm a legitimate "business", insofar as the dogs aren't treated as a family pet but are nonetheless not mistreated. Then of course at the other end of the scale you have examples of horrendous cruelty with dirty pens and overcrowded conditions. So, can a breeder legitimately pass various checks and still be a "puppy farm" or is it more nuanced than that?

[ArriettyJones]

I think I saw that story. The same question crossed my mind and I wondered how rigorous registration actually is.

[NeutrinoWrangler]

My mental image of a puppy farm is unmistakable and horrendous, but there must be "degrees". A place may be illegal without being the worst example. I can imagine there's a grey area where it might be difficult to definitively say one way or the other.

Then there are those who seem to think that it's a criminal offence for anyone but a specialised breeder to let their dog have puppies. Not to mention the people who feel all pets should be rescues...

[tabulahrasa]

Puppy farms aren’t actually illegal, so yes they can pass inspections and be registered.

[fourteenohnine]

But then they are advertised as breeders, not puppy farms, aren't they?

[NeutrinoWrangler]

Should've added that my personal preference is that the "parent dogs" both be pets, not viewed as breeding stock or investments. However, I don't see a problem with so-called backyard breeders/hobbyists, if it's done with care and respect for the dogs (and not too frequently for the pet's own well-being).

[Judashascomeintosomemoney]

A few years back, dead puppies were found in a lane near me. The ‘breeder’ was identified because some of the rubbish they had chucked out in the bags with the puppies had their details on. They were registered with the council too. Means nothing.

[CMOTDibbler]

There are different degrees of puppy farm. From those where the dogs are kept clean, have appropriate vet treatment, exercise - but it is a purely commercial process of producing a commodity. Might not be what we want to see, crosses produced just to meet demand for the latest instragram fad, no screening of who buys a pup - but not inherently bad in itself, just like breeding sheep to an extent.
Then theres the really bad end of the spectrum, like those that my SILs dog was rescued from who had a litter a year from when she was 6 months old, had urine burns on her feet, was scared of her own shadow, and once she'd had as many litters as they could get out of her, was dumped.
Being a registered breeder by the council shows that on one day the dogs were clean and well - nothing about breeding standards, the happiness of the dogs or how well they are kept for their mental health

[VickyEadieofThigh]

I'm very much opposed to anyone breeding from more than one bitch in any given year and the number of litters any bitch has should be very limited. Such dogs should be pets and live indoors, in my view - I cannot sanction the using of dogs merely to breed from and make money.

I believe the trend in recent years for 'designer dogs' has led to far too many dogs being abandoned. I'm a passionate supporter (and give money every month to a small, volunteer-run one) of dog rescues and because of this, I see at first-hand how many dogs are abandoned.

[k1233]

I suppose my line is ethical breeding. By that I mean a minimum age before a bitch has pups and a max number of litters a bitch can have in a year and in her lifetime. I believe kennel clubs have these requirements. Doesn't mean people don't lie, but it's at least an attempt at ethical breeding standards.

Most breeders I know love their dogs. They have minimal litters during the year, not usually concurrent litters, as they like to do lots of developmental exercises / experiences with their pups. They have waiting lists for pups and are picky about who they sell to.

What I call a puppy farmer is any breeder who has multiple bitches pregnant at the same time (depending on breed and litter size). Typically these people don't do as much early work with the pups. Councils approve these establishments and licence them to operate. It doesn't make them ethical. They tend to sell on a first come first served basis and do no suitability assessment of purchasers.

There was a facility with over 50 dogs approved by a council over here. By any definition thats a puppy farm and a miserable life for a dog. The council should be ashamed of themselves.

www.westernadvocate.com.au/story/5244419/its-unanimous-council-backs-dog-breeding-facility-at-fosters-valley/

[Thelnebriati]

For me, there are basic standards of animal management breeders have to reach for each individual animal. If they can't manage that, if the dogs are in kennels or cages all day long with not enough human interaction, they are running a battery farm.

Breeders are supposed to produce pups that are healthy and fit for purpose. I have no issue with dogs living in kennels, but if you breed dogs that will live or work in a home the puppies need to be well socialised - thats not just with people, but with cats, traffic and the noises you can expect to hear in a home.

[Awwlookatmybabyspider]

Well obviously constant breeding of the dogs.
High mortality rate of the puppies
Puppies kept in cages.
Distressed withdrawn puppies.
Anxious puppies/Mummies.
Lack of trust. Puppies are very trusting and innocent by nature. If they don't bound up to you with their tails wagging and a smile on their face somethings not right.

[tabulahrasa]

@fourteenohnine

But then they are advertised as breeders, not puppy farms, aren't they?

Well they tend not to put intensively farmed in their adverts...

The animal welfare standards are fairly basic, food, shelter, water medical care and somewhere to exercise. If all of those are met then they’re legal.

[sashh]

Proper breeders don't have a number of bitches pregnant / lactating at the same time, they also only breed one breed of dog.

Anyone breeding labradoodles (with the exceptino of dogs bred to be guide dogs or the occasional accident) or other crosses isn't a proper breeder, they may not be a puppy farm but they are the first step towards it.

Breeders can put you in touch with other breeders including breeders of other breeds.

Breeders know who the father of the puppies is.

Breeders are KC registered, not just with the council.

Your puppy will be registered and the registration wil be passed to you so you become the registered owner.

You will get a pedigree certificate, this will be from teh KC not a hand written one.

Good breeders do not need to advertise.

My limited knowledge comes mainly from a friend of my brother's, his mum bread Irish Setters, the dogs had their own settee in the living room, if you sat on it the dogs would too and the eldest would start to push you off.

The other dogs in the home were pets as well as in 2 cases show dogs. One of the dogs was just a pet, he wasn't going to make it as a show dog.

When we, as a family were looking for a dog she put us in touch with the owner of a stud dog of the breed we were looking at, who then passed on details of where he had been with available puppies.

Before we were told where the puppies where qustions were asked about our home, whether there were children, other pets, would someone be home.

If someone is genuine about breeding they will 'vet' the home the puppy is going to.

[Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow]

It seems perfectly legal to have several dogs, breeding them purely for profit, kept in good conditions. To my mind they are all “farms” and the dogs are deprived of love.

Personally I also loathe the bloody “must be KC registered” brigade as if it was a label of quality. The KC Club has created untold misery in many breeds of dogs.

My dogs are “crossbreeds” from hobby breeders that aren’t KC registered (thank god) and where I met both parents.

[grapesofbath]

I think I saw this story. I believe it's a puppy farm. Whether it's registered with the council/KC or not seems irrelevant, because inspections are seldom and requirements for registration are very basic.

There were several bitches pregnant at once, multiple litters, and multiple breeds. They all lived outside of the family house. They were not pets but money making equipment, and the "breeders" seemed far more upset about the lost revenue (emphasising that they were "high value" crosses e.g. cockapoos etc) than the distress the dogs may have been put under, not least the one puppy who was killed during the theft.

I don't believe it's wrong to breed dogs per se, but I think any breeding for pets should be from pets living in the home, only one pregnant bitch/litter at a time, and no more than one litter every two years or so. I also believe in a pet ownership licence.

[1300cakes]

I know what you mean OP, obviously some puppy farms are hideous, but when it comes to "backyard breeders" vs "proper breeders" there isn't a clear distinction. At the end of the day they all breed puppies for profit.

[Veterinari]

There is a massive overlap between breeders and puppy farms which isn't a well defined term. Basically any breeder that is using multiple bitches to generate pups primarily for income is essentially farming them.

These pups/parents are unlikely to be properly health tested or bred to improve/contribute to the breed overall

Pups are usually raised in an outbuilding/commercial setting rather than a family home with a proper socialisation plan.

Basically the focus is on minimal outlay and maximum profit. So food water shelter, basic care will be provided (these are things the local authority inspects) but the dogs' behavioural and psychological well-being will be overlooked, and there will be no contribution to bettering the breed or safeguarding the future health and welfare of puppies or breeding bitches.

Also they're potentially not declaring income for tax

[Veterinari]

At the end of the day they all breed puppies for profit.

Untrue

Ethical breeders will breed to promote genetic diversity, desired temperament, working, and health traits, and to support the populations of rare breeds which are at risk of extinction. It is entirely possible to make no/very little money from a litter once stud fees, genetic tests, and veterinary care costs have been calculated.