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To think no other primary year groups will be going back this year?

(60 Posts)
bedspreadwithflowers Sun 17-May-20 08:05:51

I’ve just read the government guidance for the first time and it explicitly states that all children returning should be offered a full time place. So... if classes can only be 15 pupils they won’t be able to open up to the rest of the school (beyond year R,1 and 6) before Sept will they (or even then)?

Schools are pushed for classroom space at the best of times, no state school has the amount of space available to make this work as far I’m aware.

Personally I’m relieved about this but it’s just another example of the government not thinking things through... why say they had an ambition to get other primary groups back in June if it was obviously unworkable?

OP’s posts: |
StealthPolarBear Sun 17-May-20 08:07:13

I didn't realise that, assumed it was part time only. You're absolutely right, how can they deliver full time places with smaller class sizes? Surely they can't.

beela Sun 17-May-20 08:08:19

Yanbu, no school has double the classrooms it usually needs, and very few have a teacher and a full time TA per class of 30.

HereIamin2020 Sun 17-May-20 08:12:52

All schools in the school trust have agreed that will not be open Wednesday for anyone other than key workers. Long term I am expecting that everyone will be offered two days schooling a week. I feel so sorry for head teachers at the moment trying to come up with plans with conflicting guidance!

DippyAvocado Sun 17-May-20 08:19:38

Unless the government pay lip service to "bubbles" for a few weeks then decide it's perfectly safe to send everyone back .

I can say as a teacher from a year group that isn't going back, I've been told by my school I will be in school working normal hours so the quality of provision and amount of contact from me for my own class remote learning is going to go way down. There's no way I can keep up with what I'm doing already and be in class all day.

Mookie81 Sun 17-May-20 08:21:00

They've bowed to pressure without actually discussing the practicalities with the people who will actually be attempting to put this shit show into practice.
We need 8 rooms for 2 year groups. If we had all kids in we would need 54 rooms which we dont have. And that's without our nursery!
If they want schools to open they will need to come out and say distancing isn't possible and you'll have to get on with it.
If they want all their 'rules' of distancing followed in any way, shape or form then it is not physically possible to have all the children in.
This is why it infuriates me when people on here moan about us not wanting the kids back. It's because we can't facilitate it according to government rules!
Think about toileting- we can't send children whenever they want so it would have to be timetabled and whole groups to go together so they can be cleaned after. But what if a child is desperate outside of that? Can you imagine the parent posting on here that their child wasn't allowed to go the toilet when they asked?!

twinnywinny14 Sun 17-May-20 08:26:18

Unless at the end of June they can put whole classes back together then there is no way that all year grps can return. It may be just one more yr group or something but it is going to become a problem. Many infant schools can’t open to reception and year one from June 1st as they don’t have enough classrooms so this is not straightforward. Coupled with Jenny Harries saying children spending time near each other are at higher risk means reception for definite is not going to work for long.

twinnywinny14 Sun 17-May-20 08:27:50

@HereIamin2020 but schools are not allowed to rota the children, they have to have a full time place

Maybelatte Sun 17-May-20 08:30:56

The June reopening was only if we managed to keep infection rates down and they’re actually increasing so I don’t even see the select few going back in June tbh. The government were overly ambitious, probably trying to give the public some fruitless hope.

I’ve always said September at the earliest and it will be a staged return. You’ll either send them in two days a week and it will be classes of 15 or it will be some in the morning, some in the afternoon like nursery.

Marsis Sun 17-May-20 08:31:19

I think the assumption here is that all parents decide to send their children in when it seems that many won’t. This will in some ways make it easier for schools as judging by the discussions around my children’s class less than half of the parents are going to send theirs in. What could raise problems is people getting FOMO after a couple of weeks and wanting to send in their children. Schools should be clear that if parents decide now not send in their children they must stand by the decision and other than for shielding situations the provision of work becomes the parents responsibility until at least September or whenever the restrictions are relaxed.

Butteredtoast55 Sun 17-May-20 08:31:26

Schools can use a rota. It's very much discouraged but if they have to, they have to. It's government guidance not set in stone (free schools and academies can do it however they see fit too). Whatever we do has to be manageable and sustainable. For most schools a rota is the only realistic option for the sake of everyone's safety and wellbeing and to offer the best they can.

Maybelatte Sun 17-May-20 08:31:36

Also the infection rates will continue to increase now the government have eased lockdown. People are already taking advantage.

897654321abcvrufhfgg Sun 17-May-20 08:34:49

Yep no rota allowed. My children’s school put out a strongly worded email trying to persuade us not to send our child back and that it would be very part time. 2 hours b4 they were due to send this timetable of part time to parents they had to email back claiming the government had changed the rules and they were back to square one

SallyLovesCheese Sun 17-May-20 08:34:51

I believe at the end the guidance says that schools may make their own plans based on their settings, this is only guidance, not statutory. I can't find the quote though.

MinorArcana Sun 17-May-20 08:39:14

Yeah, the government can’t have everything.

You can’t have bubbles of 15 children, all children returning to have a full time place, and a school place available for all primary school pupils by the end of the school year.

You just can’t.
Even if the school had enough teachers and high level TAs to teach all the bubbles simultaneously (which many don’t), it’s clearly impossible to fit all the bubbles into school at the same time given the space the schools have available.

HereIamin2020 Sun 17-May-20 08:41:16

@twinnywinny14 They can only have 15 children per class and Wednesday will also be for cleaning. It is a small modern building/site with nursery classes. It is an infant school and they have already strongly hinted that it is unlikely that year 1 will be back in the first wave.

Full time places are physically impossible without (a lot!) more money. What alternative is there?

I am expecting this to carry on into next School year and am thinking about how I will adapt my working hours to cope.

Tfoot75 Sun 17-May-20 08:42:24

Responses to surveys by schools in my area have been roughly 50/50 I think and a lot of those are maybes. My dds y2 class has 24 pupils, there's no way they'll be into 2 classrooms.

Anyway, if this is going to be a semi permanent state of affairs, I'm sure mobile classrooms can be obtained relatively easily before September, so it's hardly an enormous stumbling block. Some schools may not have space of course but I imagine a lot do.

spanieleyes Sun 17-May-20 08:44:44

We have three quarters of our children expected back, we can fit in R/1/6 and the key worker children not in those year groups but don't have any further space for additional year groups unless we go well above the 15 per room.

bedspreadwithflowers Sun 17-May-20 08:46:21

Another thing in the guidance that caught my eye was that there will be less remote learning resources for those at home (ie the majority of primary aged children), and parents should be guided towards eg the Oak National Academy online, rather than having any content/contact from their teachers.

OP’s posts: |
spanieleyes Sun 17-May-20 08:47:16

I've just googled the cost of a mobile classroom, a double one is between £75000 and £100000. Where is the money going to come from!

bedspreadwithflowers Sun 17-May-20 08:47:29

Here is a link to the guidance

www.gov.uk/government/publications/preparing-for-the-wider-opening-of-schools-from-1-june/planning-guide-for-primary-schools

OP’s posts: |
twinnywinny14 Sun 17-May-20 08:47:55

I also worry about those children at home. How are they going to be supported by their teachers when they are teaching other year groups full time? This includes the vulnerable children the government keep going on about who are potentially going to have less contact with school staff

EducatingArti Sun 17-May-20 08:51:49

@Tfoot75
"Anyway, if this is going to be a semi permanent state of affairs, I'm sure mobile classrooms can be obtained relatively easily before September, so it's hardly an enormous stumbling block. Some schools may not have space of course but I imagine a lot do."
The biggest problem with this is that the government have not offered any extra money at all to schools, not even for the additional cleaning in the rooms they already have. This is in schools that have been struggling to afford soap, paper towels and the photocopier bill.

vinoandbrie Sun 17-May-20 08:52:10

Children at private schools will be able to go back, due to much smaller class sizes.

DippyAvocado Sun 17-May-20 08:52:41

Some schools, especially in cities have very small playgrounds and won't be able to fit mobile classrooms, even if they could afford the expense, which they won't without special funding. Also, where are we going to get double the number of teachers?

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