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please read the guidance for schools....

(264 Posts)
Ariseandsmellthetea99 Wed 13-May-20 18:21:24

Key points:
-Since hospital grade PPE is neither obtainable (needed for medical staff) nor practical for teaching young children (scary and next to impossible to teach in) this is not recommended

- Since face coverings would need to be worn by all the children to have any effect at all (this relates to the science that a face covering only protects those around you not the person wearing), this isn't practical or recommended.

-They are NOT suggesting children are kept separate from all other children (as some fairly alarming photos on social media have shown).

-Children should be kept away from others who are NOT in their group bubble (the max 15 other children they WILL be mixing with). These groups should remain the same with the same adult to limit exposure for the adult.

- Any staff who are (clinically) vulnerable or live with someone vulnerable should be leading remote learning from home.

-Any children who are (clinically) vulnerable or who live with vulnerable should stay at home

- Parents should be socially distanced. To enable this, each bubble of 15 children should be dropped off at a different entrance or time.

If you disagree with these measures, please say what measure you think would be better, since children remaining home for up to 2 years is neither desirable nor healthy.

OP’s posts: |
siring1 Wed 13-May-20 18:28:03

I disagree with you saying 2 years at the end. Where did this come from?

HollyGoLoudly1 Wed 13-May-20 18:32:28

Where did this come from?

sauvignonblancplz Wed 13-May-20 18:33:52

It’s just about looking at these procedures , you need to look at the governments strategies thus far.
We still don’t have enough testing , we are not tracking and tracing .
To stagger the day seems to me completely unrealistic.
Teachers do not have the resources as it is never mind to comply with these wholly measures.
Everything is moving too quickly to fully understand the through process of our government .
If we are following the science it’s too soon to ease.

The viral load for a teacher in the same vicinity as all their students is really high risk and the exposure shouldn’t be deemed as small.

myself2020 Wed 13-May-20 18:38:50

The viral load for a teacher in the same vicinity as all their students is really high risk and the exposure shouldn’t be deemed as small.
that is only an argument if many (not one, many) kids actually have the virus and are shedding. which in asymptomatic kids is unlikely.

KKSlider Wed 13-May-20 18:40:02

Children don't need to remain at home for two years, where is that from?

Most people who are saying they won't send their children back on 1st June aren't saying they will never send them back. What they are saying is that it's a rushed approach.

This week some workplaces went back, some shops and business reopened, and there was an easement on what activities you can do outside of your home. In addition there was a bank holiday weekend, typically a time when people are mor likely to break lockdown restrictions. In 2-3 weeks time we will see if any of these things have pushed up the infection rate, the number of people hospitalised, and the number of deaths.

People are concerned that schools will be returning at that exact time rather than thr government waiting to see what happens with the other measures first.

The government does not appear to have consulted with anyone in education on how feasible it will be to return schools in the format they're using, indeed the first most education bodies heard about it was when it was announced on Sunday evening. There should have been proper consultation with schools, councils, and governing bodies to see what the practicalities were before it was announced and a provisional date set.

People don't want to gamble with their children and opening schools to additional children, outside of the children currently attending, has been the wrong step for the government. People need to see that other easements are safe first before sending their children off to school. They're afraid and they don't trust the government to be truthful with them about the perceived risks.

FWIW, my DCs schools have sent letters to parents of the relevant year groups asking if their child will be attending if they are allowed back on 1st June and early indicators are that barely any will be as the majority of parents are replying to say no. Both schools have been very open about the fact that they may not be able to open to these years groups at all if they cannot meet the staffing levels required and/or do not have the space to safely accommodate them so its possibly all moot anyway.

fishfingerface Wed 13-May-20 18:41:49

Schools have just over one week to put all these safety precautions in place. It's not enough time.

fishfingerface Wed 13-May-20 18:42:31

Most schools do not have enough room to accommodate the different groups and children won't have their normal class teacher either

FrippEnos Wed 13-May-20 18:43:37

You would be better off linking to the document so that posters can read it without your additions.

Onone Wed 13-May-20 18:44:40

I can’t do this for 2 years no way!

JemimaPuddleCat Wed 13-May-20 18:50:00

please read the guidance for schools in England....

Rowantree2020 Wed 13-May-20 18:53:41

I don’t think any measures will ever be good enough for some teachers OP. Schools need to start getting ready because like it or not they will be reopening.

reefedsail Wed 13-May-20 18:55:30

It says to stagger play times so the smaller groups don't mix with one another.

In a 2 form entry school, that is 12 minutes on the playground each, starting the rota at 9am.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Wed 13-May-20 18:58:12

They are NOT suggesting children are kept separate from all other children (as some fairly alarming photos on social media have shown).

Where settings can keep children and young people in those small groups 2 metres away from each other, they should do so.

I’m fairly certain this is suggesting that children should where possible be kept 2m apart. It’s just they accept that this might be quite difficult to maintain with younger years.

PheasantPlucker1 Wed 13-May-20 19:01:35

Couple of questions, OP.

Will the break/ dinner supervisors assist each class, or just their own bubble?

Will each class have a TA to take pupils to the loo and ensure handwashing takes place?

chickenlegsforever Wed 13-May-20 19:03:00

Schools ARE getting ready but they havent been given enough time to sort out all this. Read. the guidance. Headteachers cant do all this before june 1st and employ new teachers if they dont have enough

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-educational-and-childcare-settings-to-prepare-for-wider-opening-from-1-june-2020/opening-schools-for-more-children-and-young-people-initial-planning-framework-for-schools-in-england

Compare the guidance for schools to the guidance for office workers for example, then consider whether teachers, support staff etc are being unreasonable. The latest guidance for schools around social distancing says
"We know that, unlike older children and adults, early years and primary age children cannot be expected to remain 2 metres apart from each other and staff. In deciding to bring more children back to early years and schools, we are taking this into account." www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings#personal-protective-equipment-ppe-including-face-coverings-and-face-masks
The latest guidance for office workers is
"Objective: To maintain 2m social distancing wherever possible, including while arriving at and departing from work, while in work, and when travelling between sites.

You must maintain social distancing in the workplace wherever possible.

Where the social distancing guidelines cannot be followed in full in relation to a particular activity, businesses should consider whether that activity needs to continue for the business to operate, and, if so, take all the mitigating actions possible to reduce the risk of transmission between their staff.

Mitigating actions include:

further increasing the frequency of hand washing and surface cleaning
keeping the activity time involved as short as possible
using screens or barriers to separate people from each other
using back-to-back or side-to-side working (rather than face-to-face) whenever possible
reducing the number of people each person has contact with by using ‘fixed teams or partnering’ (so each person works with only a few others)
Social distancing applies to all parts of a business, not just the place where people spend most of their time, but also entrances and exits, break rooms, canteens and similar settings. These are often the most challenging areas to maintain social distancing." www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/offices-and-contact-centres
Quite a comparison, hey?

DamnYankee Wed 13-May-20 19:03:52

Points #1-#3 seem reasonable. As an educator, I agree with all that.
#4 seems pretty difficult, but doable
#5 and #6 seems like they should be recommended or suggested, but ultimately staff or parent choice.
#7 is problematic, but doable. However, mine ride the school bus.

So don't really disagree with any of it.

DamnYankee Wed 13-May-20 19:10:30

I deliver speech therapy in the schools, so I have less exposure than teachers facing a classroom full of the darling little disease vectors smile. I have no doubt that, like morning bus duty, I will be expected to help social distancing where possible. Do not at all know what that will look like...
Not very concerned about getting sick. More concerned about my mental health and the kids on my caseload.

KatnissK Wed 13-May-20 19:13:08

I think by 1st June we will see a huge spike in the number of cases and the start of the second wave. If schools do go back, it won't be for long. I reckon Lockdown 2 will begin in June. Purely my opinion based on the street parties for VE day, the increase in the use of public transport as people return to work and the easing of restrictions this week. While social distancing is still advised, I have heard/ read many people say on social media "if DC are back to school in a couple of weeks anyway, I don't say why they can't visit grandparents/friends/neighbours now." And so it begins (again). I do think it will be good to have the next peak over summer though.

Rowantree2020 Wed 13-May-20 19:13:50

@chickenlegsforever some schools are, but it’s apparent that some HTs seem to be taking the view that they absolutely won’t be opening. I fear for those schools because they simply won’t be prepared when the day comes. The government won’t be making exceptions for those schools.

Siriusmew Wed 13-May-20 19:14:05

that is only an argument if many (not one, many) kids actually have the virus and are shedding. which in asymptomatic kids is unlikely

Best get on to SAGE with your marvellous insight there, as Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance disagree with you!

Foobydoo Wed 13-May-20 19:15:32

What a ridiculous post.
Nobody expects to keep children off for two years!

This government which has already made a clusterfuck out of the pandemic is now rushing our children back to school, despite us having the highest deaths in Europe.

No proper risk assessment.

No consultation with teachers or unions.

No consideration that some areas in the north still have increasing rates.

Using countries such as Denmark to persuade us. I am looking at you BBC with your propaganda. Anyone with half a brain knows you cannot compare England with its low staff to child ratios and thirty odd thousands official deathrate with Denmark and its high staff to child ratio and under 600 total deathrate!

There is a reason Scotland and Wales are not following suit.

I will send my child back when community transmission is greatly reduced and track, trace and isolate is up and running properly.
When schools have proper risk assessed plans in place and proper arrangements are made for drop off and pick up, because it is a crush down a narrow path at our school.

Instead of rushing us into a second wave, the rest of term could be spent sorting these things out properly for September, when hopefully numbers should be significantly lower.
Rushing schools back will send our numbers soaring potentially jeopardising the new academic year.

We know the virus will be with us for sometime yet and it won't magically disappear in September, however, if the government handles things properly numbers could be under control, thus greatly reducing the level of risk.

Pipandmum Wed 13-May-20 19:16:41

Not all school children are young. I think from Y6 and above children are far more able to practise good hygiene and social distancing to an extent. Do not see how your staggered drop off/pick up would work. Many drop on way to work, car pool or take a school bus. And have you seen the traffic around schools? You'd have a lot of cars idling waiting for their turn.

hippohector Wed 13-May-20 19:19:48

Before lockdown it was acknowledged that children are ‘super spreaders’ and while they may not show many symptoms or get ill themselves, they are unwittingly responsible for the spread of the virus.
I’m haven’t seen or heard any scientific or medical proof to the contrary, so why are schools reopening? Or was it a load of horseshit to begin with?

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