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To think people shouldn't be guilted into still paying their cleaner, tutor, gardener etc?

(210 Posts)
selfemployedconfused Wed 13-May-20 18:08:05

I've seen a lot of threads on here lately debating whether or not you should still pay for your cleaner, gardener, tutor etc. If you haven't been furloughed / financially affected and can genuinely afford it then fair enough, but AIBU to think that you shouldn't feel guilted into having to pay when you aren't receiving a service?

I am a self employed tutor and approximately 50% of my clients have stopped lessons as they aren't happy to continue online and they have stopped paying me. They have all said they are happy to continue tutoring once school resumes. I didn't once question or think about their finances, my attitude was that they aren't receiving the service for the time being so why should they continue to pay me every week?

I also employ a cleaner and I haven't been paying her as she obviously hasn't been able to clean... we were both fine with this and it didn't occur to me that I might be being unreasonable. I don't feel hard done by for my own clients not paying for a service they aren't receiving, and I didn't feel bad for not paying my cleaner until I read some threads on here. Everyone is in a difficult position at the moment and I think some of the judgement and making people feel guilty on here is strange!

YABU = Yes people should feel guilty about no longer paying.
YANBU = No people shouldn't feel guilty about no longer paying.

OP’s posts: |
LochJessMonster Wed 13-May-20 18:20:37

I’m neither poor nor well off but I wouldn’t pay for a service I’m not receiving.

I’m asking for a full refund of my uk holiday cottage that was cancelled.

I’ve frozen my gym and National Trust membership.

SonnyRobes Wed 13-May-20 18:34:21

I find that everyone thinks you should only pay for a service you're receiving - unless you bring up childcare. Suddenly everyone changes their minds once childcare is mentioned. Somehow nurseries are allowed to charge full fees whilst providing no childcare and even though they've furloughed most of their staff, have grants from the government, are still getting government childcare funding and have suspended their business rates, they're allowed to make insane profits. It's the same with bank holidays. I've never understood it.

BacklashStarts Wed 13-May-20 18:37:57

competitive virtue signalling!

BacklashStarts Wed 13-May-20 18:38:47

Whoops, pressed send too soon. That’s meant to refer to the posters belittling others for not still paying.

Pleasebeafleabite Wed 13-May-20 18:40:50

I imagine what people say on MN and what they’re doing in the real world bear no relation to each other and that YANBU

Bflatmajorsharp Wed 13-May-20 18:43:36

I don't think it's necessarily guilt that motivates people to pay.

It's wanting to financially support that person if they are unable to work through no fault of their own (obviously, only if your income hasn't been dramatically affected).

And sort of paying a retainer so that they'll commence work with you when they are able to.

I do think tutoring is a bit different to cleaning, as people tend to do it for a short time, whereas people have cleaners that they're happy with for years.

But if your income has been hit, it's fair enough that you minimise your outgoings.

SonnyRobes do many nurseries make insane profits? I don't know, mine children attended local authority ones which obviously don't.

Bank Holidays are different to nursery service being suspended as it is now. Staff are still entitled to full pay, rates and rents don't deduct a day for those weeks.

Salaried people don't receive a deduction in income on months when there are bank holidays for example.

selfemployedconfused Wed 13-May-20 18:48:09

Some of the children I have taught for years and are long term tutees of mine have stopped lessons and therefore stopped paying. I didn't once think they might be unreasonable and they will all be continuing once school does. In theory I could still afford to pay my cleaner every week, but she isn't providing a service at the moment and she knows her job is there for her when the lockdown is lifted. I've had my income slashed in half by all of this but I don't feel resentful of those who aren't paying, it didn't even cross my mind that they should continue to pay whilst they aren't getting any tutoring. I would actually feel bad if they did pay me to do nothing.

OP’s posts: |
ComtesseDeSpair Wed 13-May-20 18:54:42

I think it’s admirable but could be never ending. Will people pay their hairdresser if they would have had appointments during lockdown? Massage therapists? Paypal a few pounds a week to the owner of the local independent cafe or bakery if they usually buy a coffee or pastry on the way to work?

I can see why some people might want to keep paying a valued and reliable cleaner so as to ensure that the cleaner will keep them on as clients after this is all over but some of the sanctimoniousness is laughable - one poster declared that she would reconsider friendships with friends who didn’t keep on paying for services they weren’t receiving regardless of their own income situation because it made them morally bankrupt confused

ihatethecold Wed 13-May-20 18:57:10

I wanted to ask this Q on here.
why do cleaners get paid if they are not cleaning?

my son is self employed on a building site. he isn't being paid for not working so why would a cleaner?

opticaldelusion Wed 13-May-20 18:57:20

You can only bring guilt on yourself. It's an emotion that tells you that you're not behaving in line with your own conscience and values.

Worstyear2020 Wed 13-May-20 18:58:51

selfemployedconfused, I wish everyone are as considerate as you.

NeverTwerkNaked Wed 13-May-20 19:03:11

I'm paying my cleaner but she has looked after me and the house through some really tough years and I couldn't have got through them without her. My income isn't hit and it felt like a small way to help someone.

What do you teach and what age @selfemployedconfused because I am looking for an online tutor for my year 4 son as his teachers aren't really doing much at all and I still have to work. Or even if you can recommend me where to find a good tutor?

NeverTwerkNaked Wed 13-May-20 19:03:51

(he loves school and needs and wants to learn )

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff Wed 13-May-20 19:06:38

DH aunt is a piano teacher. She has lived in the same small village almost all her life (now 60s), lives in a rent controlled cottage in a lease she started in the 70s, and has often more than one generation of the same family. As far as I can work out, she has not upped her rates since amount about 1996 and charges around £12 an hour but mostly does half hour lessons.

She basically has no money as she does not yet have her pension, has virtually no savings, and lives on a couple of hundred pounds per month after rent.

Her income has completely dried up. Not one of her students has kept paying.

DMIL (her sister) paid her £50 this week so she could buy food.

It is awful but tbh, she is self employed, largely works cash in hand, and is rubbish with money. It is a bad mix. But she doesn't expect to be paid and none of her students seem to have given it a thought.

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff Wed 13-May-20 19:07:19

*has taught

Whitney168 Wed 13-May-20 19:07:19

If I had a long-term fabulous cleaner, with a relationship that spanned a couple of years or more, I would absolutely have considered paying them at least a retainer.

God knows where people find these gems, though. I get a constant stream of unreliable folk who aren't even that great at cleaning. (Still too lazy to do it myself unless I have to, though!) If any of them expect it for short-term flaky working relationships, then they clearly had another think coming.

I do feel sorry for the woman whose firm I'm currently using though - she's only set her business up this year, and has already found it virtually impossible to find decent cleaners and keep them. I'll be amazed if she returns to it after all this, to be honest.

BluebirdHill Wed 13-May-20 19:07:36

I'm paying. I want to keep people in business. My own income is fine and I understand it's different for people where theirs isn't.

Are you not offering online tutoring? My son is doing his that way and some of his other extra activities too.

jgjgjgjgjg Wed 13-May-20 19:11:03

Most self employed people (at least those who have filed tax returns) will be paid 80% of their average monthly income for March, April and May (although I accept that there will always be exceptions and people that fall through the cracks?)

LadyGardener2 Wed 13-May-20 19:12:18

I'm a gardener and not 1 customer has offered to pay, and in fact we've lost about 70% of our customers as we didnt work for a few weeks due to gov guidelines and they found someone else who was working. Not sure our little business is going to survive sadly sad

GrumpiestOldWoman Wed 13-May-20 19:14:17

Our cleaner is a hero and a MN rarity - she tidies, irons and cleans the toilet!

She has more than earned the paid leave. If I was struggling financially then I'd reconsider but if I can afford it I'd prefer to support her.

LadyGardener2 Wed 13-May-20 19:14:21

Because my work is seasonal (usually 8 months a year) and the 80% is averaged over 12 months x 3 years then it hasnt covered what I would usually earn at all sad
(Plus my 1st year was about a 3rd of what I fet now, so that brought it down loads too)

Wilding Wed 13-May-20 19:14:33

I'm a tutor and feel the same - if I don't teach the lesson, I don't get paid, even though most of my clients are long term families I've been working with for years. For that reason I haven't been paying our cleaner since lockdown as she hasn't been cleaning. As it happens, most of my clients are online anyway so I'm still working, but I have lost a lot of income from cancelled residential trips and from GCSE students no longer needing revision sessions.

AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter Wed 13-May-20 19:16:13

I completely agree with you OP.

If I'm not receiving a service, I dont pay for it. It really is THAT simple. I am not responsible for anyone else's finances or business. Noone gives me any for my business so why on earth should i take responsibility for someone else's finances. If they are self employed and doing a tax return as they should legally be doing, then they should have no problems registering for universal credit and help.

If they havent been completing a tax return, well- thats on them for doing something illegal isnt it?

vanillandhoney Wed 13-May-20 19:18:29

I'm self-employed and haven't received any income since the third week of March. I could work but nobody needs me because they're all working from home now (dog walker and pet sitter).

I'm very lucky that DH is working and we can survive on his income but I imagine lots of small businesses will go bust from this, especially as those that are newly set up don't get a penny from the government - just UC at the old jobseekers rate.

I only went self-employed in February so the government don't have to pay me anything. It sucks but all my clients are at home or have had their holidays cancelled so they don't need my services!

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