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Finances / wills (I earn more and he has DC)(428 Posts)
DH and I are married and we both earned equally when we got married. We recently moved into a new house and at that time DH changed jobs so he earns about £10k less than he did then. I’ve had promotions and earn about £10k more than I did when we got married. So now I earn about £20k more than him. I am ambitious and don’t rule out doubling my salary yet.
He has a DD. We had a DD together who died. We’d like more DC but there are no guarantees. I’m very aware of death and mortality since losing her so don’t assume I’ll have more children before I die.
Anyway DH is asking me to contribute more and more on the basis I earn more. He also pays CSM.
I pay more towards the mortgage and bills, I pay for all the food, I pay for the car and I pay for anything extra for the house or any work (house needs a lot of work since we moved in).
I’ve said if I am to pay more because I earn more, fine, but I’d like us to do wills which reflect this. If I don’t have DC of my own I want my share of all I have worked for (I am ambitious and expect my earnings to increase significantly yet whereas he’s happy on his average salary) to go to my family. I have a much younger sibling and would want my share in the house and money to go to them and my nieces and nephews if I die without any DC.
He is not happy with this and I think it’s because he sees it as being personal to his DC. Please don’t say “you knew he has kids” because yes I did but she has two parents. I feed her and buy her things and take her out when she’s here. DH pays the CSM. She would inherit from him and her mother who hasn’t had more children and is now unlikely to as shes late 40s. I don’t think DSD needs to inherit from me too.
He thinks if I earn more I should pay more. That makes sense because he can’t pay what he hasn’t got and tbh nothing would get done if I waited until he could pay half.
But if I dropped dead tomorrow the house and my savings etc would go to DH and then to his kids. Maybe his new wife and kids if he decided to go down that road. Am I wrong for thinking I want my share to go to my family (who could do with the money and supported me for a long time) only after we have both died?
How do we do this fairly?
OP I have similar feelings but I have yet to do anything about it. I have considerably more assets in my name than DH and if I die first everything I have worked hard for including long before I met him would currently go to him. No issue at all with that, of course I would want him to be ok and financially sound without me. My issue is that then potentially my SDC will end up inheriting what was originally 'my' money which I'm not happy with (we do not and will not have joint DCs), I have other beneficiaries I would want it to go to if there was anything left when DH passed. I understand that some sort of trust can resolve this issue but it's a difficult conversation to have so I haven't yet.
I would mathematically work out contributions to household budget based on earning, that’s fair
But I wouldn’t include CM as part of household budget, as that is his financial affair, nor would this money be subtracted from his earning prior to calculations
As for your will, leaving a part share to a relative, will you also leave a share to your husband?
Tell him he needs to contribute equally if he isn't in agreement with your plans.
If this is how you feel you need to act now. Dsc has two parents to provide for her. You are well within your rights to leave your estate to whoever you see fit.
Myself and my dh have mirror wills which basically says we hold the house as tenants in common and tvst should either of us die our share of the house is held in trust and will pass to the children but the surviving spouse has right to live there until certain triggers. We have left some pensions to each other but other items. I did not want my dh to inherit everything in the event he remarried and died with no will so our children would lose everything . He was ok with all this
If you die before him, he can then change his will anyway. In fact, either of you can change your will at any stage and don't need to let the other person know!
In your situation, if I were you I'd make my will leave a set amount to my family and the rest to him. My eldest DD is my DHs step DD. So my will leaves her the amount of money I brought to the relationship from my first marriage, and a lesser amount to our DD, but the rest goes to him. Interestingly, his will leaves an equal amount of money to both girls and the rest to me.
Both girls know what the wills say as they are executors, and both agree with them.
I’m sure I read on one of these threads a solicitor saying there’s a way of forcing a switch from joint ownership to tenants in common. You’d need to look into this via a solicitor though, don’t just go by what MN says!
In principal though, you’re not unreasonable. What shares do you think would be appropriate to own the house in?
My DH and I are 50/50 tenants in common even though I paid the entire 45% deposit and we split the mortgage. I want us to be equal in all things, so didn’t feel right starting to chop the house up into 75/25 chunks or whatever it might be.
He has an older DD and we have two together. If he died before me and we were joint owners, it would come to me and if I died without having renewed my will, it would all go to our children and DSD would be cut out. I don’t want this to be a possibility and I also don’t particularly want to split my share into thirds as if DSD was my own child either. So we are 50/50 and each half will be split between our own children.
Has your DH considered the possibility that his DD could be left with nothing unintentionally?
The easiest way around this is to break it down as follows:
- Stocks, shares, pension, cash and consumables (e.g. a nice necklace).
These can be split up easily during probate and assigned to whoever you like in the will.
- Fixed assets (e.g. house/land). This is more problematic as presumably, you do not want your DH to go homeless. Tenants in common and a lifetime interest may be the way to go here, but your recipients may have to wait a long time before they get your asset.
From what I understand, the lifetime interest seems to be used more when there are children and the dead spouse wants to ensure their halve of the asset is passed down (and not given away through remarriage, for example).
Thank you for the 💐 It is more of an issue because of what’s happened obviously.
The thing is I honestly thing it wouldn’t matter who put in more if he didn’t have a DD before me and maybe if my DD hadn’t died. But because he does have a DD and I don’t, and I don’t know if I will, it is relevant because I’d I die everything goes to him an then to DSD.
The thing is I am v ambitious and DH isn’t. That’s fine and in life we share but after we are both dead I honestly think it’s fair that my kids / family inherit more if they had a mother who worked to earn more and made a real effort to save and put money into the house.
Thing is, even if we said everything were 50:50, my DD (for example (if she had outlived us, as she should have) would have got less. DSD would have got 50% of our estate (which I contribute more to in life) plus all of her DM’s estate. My DD would have just got 50% of our estate. I don’t think that’s fair.
To the PP who asked what he contributes. He contributes up to 50% of the mortgage and bills. His contribution is going down as he is adjusting to his lower salary and it depends on if he has anything else to pay in which case I’ve got to pay the deficit.
I pay for our car and insurance. He pays for about 70% diesel - he also uses it most as we travel to work together and otherwise the car is only really used for food shopping and him picking up and dropping off DSD - I therefore can’t use the car much every other weekend. We had our own cars but after he took a pay cut he didn’t have enough money to buy one and insure it so now we share.
I pay for all food, cleaning products etc.
I buy things like furniture, bedding, we needed a new hoover, burglar alarm needed to be replaced, for new bathroom... We needed a new vacuum so I ordered one last night. He just doesn’t get involved in it.
I also do the bulk of the housework. Not sure how that’s fair but it wouldn’t get done (maybe irrelevant)...
@Ohffs66 Your situation sounds similar.
Thanks for the advice. There is certainly food for thought there.
I should say we do trust one another. He is mid 40s and I’m mid 30s. He has always assume he’s likely to die first and he would have left evening to me and trusted Id have given a fair share to DSD but we know that anything can happen especially after losing the youngest member of our family.
But my point is I think we trust that if we agree something then the one who survives the other would honour that.
I’ll be honest I hate thinking about death. I’m sure we all do. But I also know it’s a fact of life.
Thanks for those who understand.
It’s not irrelevant.
I earn less as I work part time. However I do most of the housework and cooking shopping ironing etc to equal out our free time.
If you both work full time then he effectively gets more measure time. It’s a division of time rather than jobs.
I contribute where I can but I pay for mainly kids stuff, shoes clubs lunches driving lessons, he saves twice what I save for bigger items.
It’s being fair.
You speak very coldly about his child. What’s the relationship like?
"DSD would have got 50% of our estate (which I contribute more to in life) plus all of her DM’s estate. My DD would have just got 50% of our estate."
That doesn't make sense. If you split it 50-50, you would have left your 50% to DD. Your DH could have split his 50% between his daughters. So your DD would get 75% and DSD would get 25% plus whatever she inherits from her mother.
This would be moot except that you might have another child; are you hoping to? Has the loss of your DD changed your feelings about DH?
The thing is OP, if you do die first and everything is left to your husband, it’s his to do with what he wishes.
Either you want to leave something directly to your family or you don’t. This whole ‘goes to him but then goes to my family after he does’ just doesn’t seem right to me.
IME, it is other family members that can cause a problem. Especially if someone dies young and the surviving spouse remarries.
Legal advice is essential.
* Thing is, even if we said everything were 50:50, my DD (for example (if she had outlived us, as she should have) would have got less. DSD would have got 50% of our estate (which I contribute more to in life) plus all of her DM’s estate. My DD would have just got 50% of our estate. I don’t think that’s fair.*
These things aren’t fair though OP. In situations like this you can never make them ‘fair’.
You do sound like you resent his daughter.
I’m not being cold about DSD. I’m just trying to look at the pure finances of it.
Your DH could have split his 50% between his daughters. So your DD would get 75% and DSD would get 25% plus whatever she inherits from her mother.
Well yes and that would make sense but only if that’s what’s we put in our wills otherwise wouldn’t it go 50% each? I honestly don’t know.
I am hoping to have more children. We both want that and we are TTC but I don’t take for granted that I will have a healthy child that outlives me. I have been TTC for almost a year and had a MC in the process. I am no spring chicken and I can’t help but think of all the things that can go wrong.
Sorry I probably sound a bit pessimistic / negative but I’m just trying to be practical.
This whole ‘goes to him but then goes to my family after he does’ just doesn’t seem right to me.
No but I’m wondering if there is a legal way to do it. It might be, as PPs have said, to give him a life interest in the house and then decide on the split but I obviously need legal advice on the point.
I don’t resent his daughter. This isn’t about her or even my daughter. It’s about coming to an arrangement re finances that doesn’t leave either of us feeling that things are too imbalanced or unfair.
YANBU at all. He sounds a bit mercenary.
Whilst I agree that you should pay more to mortgage and bills, but you need to be careful you’re not paying so much more that you get less disposable income than him.
How much does his dd cost you?
IME, it is other family members that can cause a problem. Especially if someone dies young and the surviving spouse remarries.
Yes exactly I’m also thinking what if I die and he remarried and I never had a will so everything goes to him and his new wife and DSD and his kids with new wife and nothing goes to my younger sibling (my family wouldn’t challenge anything).
We were talking about my aunt who had somehow taken my grandparents house when they died and sold it without consideration of the other four siblings. I’d just like everything to be clearly written down and agreed.
We would all like our mortgages paid off sooner. I’m in a position to of that but DH isn’t. I’d be more inclined to do that if I’m sure some of what I’ve worked for would go to my family when I die.
I should speak to a solicitor about it to at least find out what my options are.
Op. You’re completely entitled to your view. And why posters are calling this ‘cold’ regarding a child that isn’t yours completely confuses me.
Your pay more, you earn more and contribute more. By proxy of that, this child already benefits from your increased earnings as its affording a lifestyle when she is with you that your DH couldn’t afford.
Beyond that there are no allowances you need to make. Like you my partner has children. As do I. In the event that I die with my children (something like a car/ plane crash) my estate passes to my siblings and nieces and nephews. Not my partner or his children. As you say, these children have two parents and maternal/ paternal families from which they will inherit.
I think you’re well within your rights to bottom out this conversation.
Ok more specifics
I earn £50k and get about £2800 a month after tax and pension etc. He earns £30K and gets about £2k a month (or a bit less?) after tax and pension. We don’t have a joint account except for bills but obviously I pay for household things out of my account anyway. He pays £400 CSM. DSD is here EOW. I don’t directly pay anything for DSD other than food and treats when she’s here. I pay more for bills and mortgage and for all food and any meals out or treats we go on, I pay for the car which he needs to see her, but it’s not like I can say she costs £X a month. Having said that I probably pay an amount equal to at least half CSM extra towards the bills because he can’t pay it so I’m effectively contributing to CSM in a way.
I'm so sorry to hear about your DD.
You have every right to make your wishes heard and brought forward. If your DP cant accept this then hes not listening to you. He's not getting it. I wonder how he would feel if you requested him to give your little sibling money from his earnings if you passed away. Does he not understand how important your family are to you?
If he cant respect that then, you may start thinking of "I" not "we".
He is on 30k but pays 400 csa for one child? That seems like a lot.
I think you need to arrange your finances more fairly. In proportion to what you earn.
It sounds like you are obliged to just pay everything. Dont you have a budget each?
Then put aside some of your budget into savings and leave it to your family. The mortgage wont be gone as fast but perhaps you need to accept that.
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