AIBU to think that if a man can simply self-ID as a woman....

The world has gone mad.

All those women not eligible for their pension at 60 should just identify as older. Lord knows I feel about 80 today.

That child in the news, with trans parents and now transing aged 4 (?).
Apparently she's never known any different, it's not because the dad is trans- he's just dad, and has always been this way.

That's a little boy who'll be very confused in future.

Some universities now allow anyone to self-identify their race. Meaning that people who are white but 'feel' black can get scholarships for ethnic minorities.

The world has gone flipping bonkers.

I don't know how I feel about this. My son is trans and doesn't agree with self ID.

I would like to self ID as a cat. So I can stay in bed as long as I like and not have to go to work!

No, it’s completely different you see. Cos one is identifying as something you’re not based totally on what you think being that thing will feel like. Whilst the other one is identifying as something you’re not based totally on what you think being that thing will feel like, and shouting loudly about it.

No comparison.

@Oakenbeach generally people already do.
Strangely though self ID for your race is deemed differently than sex self ID...

Identity is not what you are. I'm a lesbian. I don't identify as one, I am one because I fit the label. I'm a woman. Once again I don't identify as one, i fit the description.

There is a an all boys school near us with a brilliant sixth form. DD was wondering the other day if she could self- id as male and apply for a place - what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander after all.....

I identify as a cucumber. Instead of going in the supermarket fitting rooms I plan to get changed in the salad aisle.

Rachel Dolezal did identify as black for example

Ileana - would that be salad dressing?

@Ileana You made me laugh out loud!

“Rachel Dolezal did identify as black for example“

Indeed she did and got crucified by the media and online for it. How that is not OK and yet TWAW is apparently all good is frankly beyond me.

Agreed.
By all means, if you feel you're the wrong sex transition. But put your money where your mouth is so to speak.

Self-ID, in the jurisdictions in which it applies, is a legal process in which one makes a truthful declaration and is subject to legal governance like other similar declarations. There are legal sanctions for making a false declaration.

But thanks for the transbashing tread of the day though.

@havelockvetinari

race is different though because there are so many possibilities and mixes. Our children are black Caribbean/asian/white British. When I fill in a form for them I tick mixed: other and write it all in but when they are adults surely it's up to them? They're medium skin tone with a mix of black and Asian features so by looking at them you could say they don't fit any racial stereotype.

This geezer already identifies as a child

Indeed she did and got crucified by the media and online for it. How that is not OK and yet TWAW is apparently all good is frankly beyond me.

Yup. Stilled called a race faker.

@iamNOTmagic

When you tick the form it is not about a ‘racial stereotype’ it is literally asking what race you are.

For your children then yes mixed black/Asian/white is what they would fill in but I don’t see the issue with that?

Ileana - would that be salad dressing?
😂

Self-ID, in the jurisdictions in which it applies, is a legal process in which one makes a truthful declaration and is subject to legal governance like other similar declarations. There are legal sanctions for making a false declaration

But I've yet to see anyone give an account of how this would work in practice. All the other "socially constructed" categories I can think of (money, nationality and so on) have clear legal criteria governing their applicability

I've never seen anyone give a decent account of how one could, in legal terms, distinguish false and true declarations of "being trans."

Take as an example convicted, male bodied sex offender Lisa Hauxwell who went on the run in Sheffield "dressed as a man." I think all of us know he isn't genuinely trans (NB Justine herself confirmed we don't have to use male pronouns for sex offenders). But the question is how do you demonstrate, legally, that he's a piss taker? If he's prepared to assert repeatedly "I am trans" (while using his very male penis to assault women), what external criteria are available to judge that he's making a false assertion (barring the bleeding obvious one that he's using his male penis to commit male pattern sexual violence against women).

I've always thought self ID was a legal nonsense, simply because you can't blithely say "it's all okay because we will impose sanctions for false declarations" while knowing that you have set the system up such that nothing could count as evidence that a false declaration had been made.

I agree. If someone can self ID as a different sex to compete in that category of sport surely then someone younger can self ID as a veteran or a heavyweight can self ID as a lightweight or an able bodied person can self ID as having a disability.

I have no issue with people calling themselves what they want or living their lives as they want but when it impacts on others eg puts others at a disadvantage at sport or makes people feel unsafe or uncomfortable in single sex spaces or they want the same access to benefits (eg scholarships grants, which are normally there for people who are underprivileged or discriminated against or under represented in some way) then I think they are attempting to un-level the playing field, if that makes sense.

I am sympathetic to people who for example who have always felt like they have been in the wrong body and have been living as the other sex for a number of years, it must be horrible if you feel people dont fully accept you in your new sex especially if they're not trying to use it to their advantage...I dont know what the answer is to differentiate them from other people who may just identify as something else to use it to their advantage