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to think that the NHS is really quite shit and that not everyone who works in it is an underpaid hero?

(630 Posts)
Adenosine Sat 30-Nov-19 03:59:54

There is a strange British preoccupation with the NHS which I think prevents honest public dialogue about its many shortcomings. At the time it was set up it was innovative, but now there are many other universal healthcare systems most of which are better than the NHS and many of which cost less money.

It's ranked low globally and really quite shit yet few people dare criticise or. AIBU to think that we really need to be far more critical?

Adenosine Sat 30-Nov-19 04:00:48

Criticise *it

lljkk Sat 30-Nov-19 04:05:10

What are your favourite alternatives, Aden, What other universal healthcare systems do you like better? Do you plan to get on BUPA instead in the meantime?

GrumpyHoonMain Sat 30-Nov-19 04:16:54

What are the other totally universal healthcare systems that are better?

zebra22 Sat 30-Nov-19 04:17:05

Try living in America for a year and see if you appreciate it a bit more then !

WilsonandNoodles Sat 30-Nov-19 04:17:15

It's far from perfect but its free for all and it is the best we have. With a cash injection to match the increase in demand then it could once again be amazing. As for it not being full of underpaid heros, I agree. Unfortunately there seems to be a real problem (in my area) with overpaid agency staff/locums with no emotional attachment to the job simple turning up to work to put in minimal effort (I apologise for the good ones out there) and who don't know the ward/patients/other staff so although filling a gap don't actually help much. We need a big investment in training to get more of the hard working heros.

Ineedaweeinpeace Sat 30-Nov-19 04:18:26

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Actionhasmagic Sat 30-Nov-19 04:20:08

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BritWifeinUSA Sat 30-Nov-19 04:21:57

@zebra22 lived here much longer than a year and my husband had cancer. I know where I’d rather be ill and it’s not the U.K.

@WilsonandNoodles it’s not “free” - you pay an extortionate amount of tax for it. And there’s still an HRT shortage, longer waiting times than ever in A and E, people having to do GoFundMe pages to send their children overseas for treatments not available in the U.K.

user1483387154 Sat 30-Nov-19 04:23:46

only better if you pay for it.
I have to have health insurance it's a legal requirement where I live. you still pay for all medicines. children's medicines and a lot of their vaccinations are also charged for.

If you have to go to hospital you overnight you still have to pay a charge. if your child goes to hospital and you have to stay .... think toddler age etc then you have to pay for your bed and food.

SpaghettiSharon Sat 30-Nov-19 04:30:05

@BritWifeinUSA we don’t pay an “extortionate amount of tax”! Our tax rates are very low in comparison to most of continental Europe, who have much better funded public services.

NowWhatUsernameShallIHave Sat 30-Nov-19 04:33:29

Feel free to go private

NowWhatUsernameShallIHave Sat 30-Nov-19 04:34:15

I do think there is a huge disparity between areas and different hospitals

araiwa Sat 30-Nov-19 04:35:18

Nhs is rated 18th best in the world

Noone claims its perfect but it is very good

Usa 37th btw

lljkk Sat 30-Nov-19 04:37:17

OP posted at 4am for us nightowls, so I'm still wondering when they will list the 'many' other universal healthcare systems, "most" of which are better. About that I can muster some curiousity.

beyond curiousity, Brexit & a Tory govt. is being forced on me. I really do feel utterly powerless to change the world. With that view I kind of don't care what OP thinks should change because I know people like me have zero power to change it. And MOANING changes nothing.

BovaryX Sat 30-Nov-19 04:37:20

There is a strange British preoccupation with the NHS which I think prevents honest public dialogue about its many shortcomings

Agreed. No other country on the planet copies its dysfunctional paradigm. When Labour were firehosing money at it last time they were in govt, thousands were dying needlessly in the Midlands. The idea that every NHS employee is a paragon of virtue is absurd. But as long as its fanatical fan club prevent an adult conversation about its myriad failures? It will continue to be a wasteful often lethal anachronism. For those of us who familiar with superb healthcare beyond the UK? Its eulogies ring very hollow

Pixxie7 Sat 30-Nov-19 04:47:30

Having worked for the NHS for over 40 years, I do think the OP has a point although I do think the ideology is good.
Unfortunately there is a lot of money wasted in the NHS. For instance if GP surgeries are essentially businesses they get paid for almost any intervention eg giving a tetanus jab. Essentially with the exception of actually seeing people who are sick they have an incentive, is it any wonder you can’t get an appointment.
Highly trained drs and nurse get paid a fortune for attending committee meetings. Definitely a lot of snobbery and the pay structure is so far out it’s not worth mentioning.

Courtney555 Sat 30-Nov-19 04:53:46

I kind of agree. I've been really poorly twice in my life. Both required reasonable stays in hospital.

The first time, I could not fault anything, other then the state of the bathrooms on the ward, which I won't mention what was on the floor most days. But the rest, I was very impressed with. All the staff I encountered were excellent.

The second, was appalling. They let my drip run dry, twice. Forgot to give me pain relief. Gave me something I'm highly allergic too, and responded with "that was lucky" when I noticed what the tablet was and alerted someone, about 5 seconds before I went to take it. Failed to notice a significant side effect I was suffering, which resulted in my eyesight being majorly affected. The nurses on this ward were permanently sullen, and borderline rude. Unnecessarily abrasive. Particularly to the woman next to me, for some reason.

Same hospital. Very different experiences.

BlueGingerale Sat 30-Nov-19 04:54:03

NZs healthcare system is much better.

There was an Irish GP on here once and she certainly though the Irish system was better.

The NHS is absolutely a sacred cow for no good reason.

And as soon as people start comparing the UK to the US they show they know nothing about the many, many viable alternative ways to run state healthcare.

Prevegen4U Sat 30-Nov-19 05:00:43

I've lived in the US all my adult life and the healthcare here is fantastic - but you need to buy health insurance if you're self-employed, as I was most of my working life.

I have also experience with the NHS.

SpaghettiSharon Sat 30-Nov-19 05:03:20

The constant comparison to the US is very unhelpful - no one would emulate their system if they gave a shit about the vulnerable in society!

But there are definitely better models out there but we have Labour emotionally wedded to the NHS and the Tories who pretend to be but are quietly selling it off. We need a third way!

MitziK Sat 30-Nov-19 05:06:37

I've had the interminable waits in clinics from time to time, I've met brusque nurses and patronising consultants (worked for one, too) - but, on the other hand, I've also had significantly more than my contributions back in terms of medical treatment, been seen within 2 minutes of arrival in A&E and had my life saved on at least 3 occasions.

In addition, when my brother was hit by a car, he got immediate free treatment, resuscitation, ambulance, A&E treatment and assessment, he spent several days in Neurological ITU with repeated scans, the staff gently negotiated the fucked up family dynamics and, once it was clear that he was never going to recover, not only did they treat him with exactly the same level of care and respect whilst keeping him alive despite his body wanting to shut down, what with his brain being more mush than anything, the resulting organ donation meant that somewhere in the region of 7-10 people received lifechanging surgery for absolutely zero cost, irrespective of whether they had a job that offered healthcare, irrespective of whether they had hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank, irrespective of anything other than medical need and a tissue match. And nobody had to set up a Go Fund Me, sell their house, take out loans and file for bankruptcy in the process.

So kindly bugger off and sockpuppet somewhere else for whatever vested interest you have in this.

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey Sat 30-Nov-19 05:11:45


JolieOBrien Sat 30-Nov-19 05:17:02

I think the NHS is not perfect but they are there for you when you need it. A friend of mine collapsed at a Wedding in July with a suspected heart attack and was rushed to A and E. The Nurse who attended her was wonderful and calming. She had a very high heart rate was sweating and shaking and they had to hold her down to get the ecg sensors on her. My friend thought she was going to die and the nurse and later the Doctor were very professional and she got the treatment she needed as quickly as possible.

Longdistance Sat 30-Nov-19 05:21:25

I’ve lived in Oz, and their healthcare system was ok. I was looked after very well when I broke my leg spectacularly and I had to have surgery. Though, the physio aftercare was rubbish.

The only real thing I have issues with is the time wasters. I was at A&E with my dm a month or so ago who was told to go there by her GP. There was a woman who had a sty in her eye and a guy who stubbed his toe 🙄 really? I was watching the ambulance guys have their patient’s triaged, my god that took far too long. We waited four hours to be seen after my dm had an ECG because they thought we went home.
I know what you mean about no one being allowed to criticise the NHS. There’s pockets of crap that can be dealt with quite easily, but no one wants to bother dealing with it.

My doctor’s surgery will see you on the day. If there isn’t an appointment, a gp will call and they’ll see you if need be.

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