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To support the Duke of York

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LadyLanka Sat 16-Nov-19 21:42:01

Just that.
Although he is being asked the wrong questions.

HighNetGirth Mon 18-Nov-19 18:10:45

does anyone seriously think there's any chance at all that Andrew will ever face a prosecutor's questions over this?

I genuinely do no think those New York lawyers in the state A-G's office give a monkey's toss about PA's royal status: if there is evidence, they will probably go after him.

And Trump and US A-G William Barr will welcome the distraction from their various travails, so no help there.

Plus, Ghislaine Maxwell will sing like a canary to get a plea deal, in all likelihood.

mbosnz Mon 18-Nov-19 18:08:33

And they're also welcome to draw their own conclusions, and to state those also. (So long as they don't get to the point of being defamatory. . .)

churchandstate Mon 18-Nov-19 18:07:14

This doesn't have the 'innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt' limitation/protection that the criminal court does.

That’s absolutely the case, and people are welcome - as I said in the very first pages of this thread to another poster - to say anything they like about what they think of the evidence presented.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook Mon 18-Nov-19 18:03:02

Andrew has chosen to present his case in the court of public opinion.

This doesn't have the 'innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt' limitation/protection that the criminal court does.

Exactly mbosnz

EntropyRising Mon 18-Nov-19 17:58:11

That is horrendous @Leighhalfpennysthigh but what you have quoted in respect of PA still doesnt make him a rapist. All of those things quoted show people's anger but there is no point in being angry at someone if they are innocent. None of us have evidence to prove his guilt or innocence.

As far as I can see, no one has called PA a rapist or anything of the sort. What has been said is that he absolutely knew what was going on, he's a liar, and a pervert of the first order.

mbosnz Mon 18-Nov-19 17:53:34

As I said previously, Andrew has chosen to present his case in the court of public opinion.

This doesn't have the 'innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt' limitation/protection that the criminal court does.

People make their mind up as to what he probably did, based on what he has said, his actions that are taken as stipulated, how he presented himself, and the credibility or otherwise of statements he has made seeking to exonerate himself.

Puzzledandpissedoff Mon 18-Nov-19 17:51:15

(Ghislaine) may well be the one who can provide the answers

No doubt she could provide at least some ... if only they could find her hmm

BackInTime Mon 18-Nov-19 17:51:06

What gets me is the fact that he firstly claimed claimed he knew Epstein merely as Maxwells plus one, yet he chose to fly to the US and stay in his house for 4 days on his release from prison having been convicted as a sex offender. He says he did this just to say that they cannot be friends anymore but he could have called, emailed, sent a royal messenger, anything but he went to stay with a convicted sex offender? Why? Why not stay in a hotel? Did his security detail have to stay there too? Did they know what was going on? The whole thing stinks.

Doubleraspberry Mon 18-Nov-19 17:50:04

PA isn’t on the civil list. He is supported by the Crown Estate though and his travel and protection expenses paid for by the taxpayer.

None of us have evidence to prove his guilt or innocence.

As in the case of the majority of rape cases. And we know how they end up.

Bunnyfuller Mon 18-Nov-19 17:44:58

This is CSE in its very finest form. I heard someone on the radio saying ‘well, she did alright out of it!’

So rich men paying indirectly to have sex with young impressionable girls is ok, but if it’s a dirty old man and his grubby friends giving a young woman drugs to aid compliance is horrific?

Same as BJ, the rich doing as they like. PA should NOT be in receipt of the civil list (well, as should they all but that’s another thread).

It’s no different to Henry VIII times when he shagged anything that moved and disposed of any awkward evidence.

What this kind of thing and Brexit have shown me: most of us are helpless peasants doing the best they can whilst the rich party. It was better in the past because we weren’t as exposed to the sheer monstrosity that forms our society. The 24/7/365 connect to the world makes it smart. A lot.

TheMidasTouch Mon 18-Nov-19 17:42:16

That is horrendous @Leighhalfpennysthigh but what you have quoted in respect of PA still doesnt make him a rapist. All of those things quoted show people's anger but there is no point in being angry at someone if they are innocent. None of us have evidence to prove his guilt or innocence.

I don't know whether the immunity from prosecution for Gislaine Maxwell is a permanent immunity from all charges (as no crime was specified) but she may well be the one who can provide the answers.

I tread somewhere (will try and find it) of talks of whether Epstein was a spy and I am wondering whether this may be why he was able to secure immunity from proscution for his alleged female accomplices on unspecified charges as well as a reduced sentence in 2008.

doritosdip Mon 18-Nov-19 17:42:00

Of course this has not been released because of the General Election.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook Mon 18-Nov-19 17:39:50

popbitch circulated that story last year so either PA used that phrase in more than one setting or Rohan (or the aide - the only other person in the meeting) did tell someone about it before today....

Doesn't matter if he did tell someone before or not. He didn't do it openly at the time when he should have is the point, but now is doing so, which strikes me as very......what is it PA said? Unbecoming.

churchandstate Mon 18-Nov-19 17:38:25

Leighhalfpennysthigh

Your poor niece. I hope action was taken to get her justice.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook Mon 18-Nov-19 17:36:26

So sorry to hear that Leighhalfpennysthigh I hope your niece has got the help she needs now.flowers

Roussette Mon 18-Nov-19 17:34:50

Bottom line for me is.... everyone is going to have an opinion on this, it's been on Newsnight, there is no escaping it on social media. PA chose to put himself out there, some reports are saying he had no choice. Rubbish. He thought he could flannel everyone and that would be the end of the matter.

If I was going to err on the side of someone, it would be the victims because .... basically... PA is a self entitled twat who is trying to save face and save his privileges. And the victims need to be believed, unless proven otherwise.

mbosnz Mon 18-Nov-19 17:32:17

Leighhalfpennysthigh your poor niece. I'm glad she was able to disclose eventually, and clearly has the support of her family, and is on the road to recovery.

I also hope she's not finding this too triggering. People can be very thoughtless in the things they will say in discussing issues like this.

churchandstate Mon 18-Nov-19 17:30:02

Puzzledandpissedoff

No.

Leighhalfpennysthigh Mon 18-Nov-19 17:28:03

People dislike him, not for some nebulous "one reason or another", but because he's a greedy, grasping, work-shy, money-grubbing, shiftless, shameless, arrogant cunt* oxygen thief*

This.

People who are making disparaging comments about the victims should be ashamed of themselves.

My niece was groomed by a paedophile when she was 14. She is very intelligent, very popular and comes from a nice middle class background with highly involved and supportive parents. She was raped by the man and his equally paedophilic friend. She didn't tell anyone for 5 years because she was so ashamed because rape and child abuse don't happen in small villages in nice middle class areas. That was what they told her. Along with how she must have wanted it to happen because...see above. For five fucking years she was too ashamed of herself to tell anyone. It didn't come out until she'd almost starved herself to death.

It happens. It happens everywhere and no, my niece didn't look like a rape victim. In the photos they took of her she too had a healthy glow, nice clothes and long shiny hair. She was also drunk and vulnerable and used against her will.

Puzzledandpissedoff Mon 18-Nov-19 17:18:07

He isn't immune from prosecution and I think it probably is appropriate for him to be officially questioned by those investigating Epstein

In theory you're absolutely right, but does anyone seriously think there's any chance at all that Andrew will ever face a prosecutor's questions over this?

HighNetGirth Mon 18-Nov-19 17:11:41

I find it quite plausible that he does not remember VG. He doesn't strike me as someone who keeps track of the little people.

myrtleWilson Mon 18-Nov-19 17:08:05

re Rohan - popbitch circulated that story last year so either PA used that phrase in more than one setting or Rohan (or the aide - the only other person in the meeting) did tell someone about it before today.....

ChazsBrilliantAttitude Mon 18-Nov-19 17:02:36

I think PA’s hubris has really really riled the press. If he had showed a hint of self awareness and compassion the palace spin doctors could have managed the situation. Instead he assumed people were forelock tugging minions who would take his pronouncements at face value. I expect he is so used to people around him agreeing with everything he says that he wasn’t expecting people to question his narrative. His approach has backfired spectacularly and now the media are dusting off their stash of PA does something stupid stories.

churchandstate Mon 18-Nov-19 16:59:37

Yes, the photo is most definitely a problem for him and his defence against it was crappy.

StoneofDestiny Mon 18-Nov-19 16:47:52

If somebody told him to apologise it’s clearly not heartfelt or genuine!

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