To think that Tony Blair....(42 Posts)
apologies for the autocorrect of opinions to onions above!
Can I ask where you got that statistic @minesagin37?
You are quite correct that he can have valid onions on Brexit. He has a good brain and is able to see what a shitshow the whole thing is, no doubt at all.
Separate from that is the question of whether holding himself up as a spokesperson for Remain is a good idea. Having been proven to be a liar, and a person of spectacularly poor judgement, any cause he tries to champion will be poisoned by him. So really the most responsible thing he could do would be to keep his mouth shut.
He could undoubtedly help the cause a lot better by contributing cash to campaigns that have more trustworthy spokespeople, and could also help out by using that brain of his to help write speeches that can then be delivered by someone less poisonous.
The trashy newspapers paint people as hero's or devils and he got painted as a devil. 80% of people in the UK then follow this rhetoric and are unable to understand mutually exclusive states.
Oh, and he lied about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. All previous PMs have had their day imv and should keep out.
His Gov allowed the huge number of east Europeans into the country in the 2000s - hence we have Brexit. Jack Straw now admits it was a big mistake. No other EU country did this so it was a deliberate decision.
IMO no. The illegal war in Iraq gave terrorist factions the perfect excuse to carry out killings - the fall out (Isis, taliban, boko haram) made it easier for them to recruit and the end result is bombings in Manchester, attacks in London, refugees fleeing for thier lives, girls abducted in Africa and troops used as cannon fodder for whatever corporation Blair sold his soul to.
This man has proven himself untrustworthy many times and in many different ways, introducing tuition fees, relinquishing control of interest rates to the banks ffs! Lying time and time again.
So yes, he may be eloquent and succinct with his words but make no doubt about it that he always has his agenda and is well practiced at the art of getting what he or whoever he is handsomely paid to 'advise' wants.
The current government are buffoons, I agree, but Blair is not going to save us, history proves that and no amount of PR or well scripted twitter feed will ever make up for that.
To say he is talking sense is irrelevant, anyone can do their own research and get the same information if they really wanted to.
The majority of people who marched in protest against the Iraq war around the world in 2002 will never forget or forgive his complicity, and neither we should.
Sorry of you don't agree, rant over!
In general I agree with your point - it’s possible to civilly disagree with someone on one issue and find common ground with them on another.
However the Iraq war is a bit more than a disagreement.
I think there are some people who have done some things that it’s ok to find unforgivable, and therefore have no time for them on any subject ever again, whether that be on a personal, public or political level. Taking the country to war illegally would be of that magnitude, for some people.
I expect very (very!) many people who object to Boris Johnson’s current manoeuvres on Brexit would not be likely to listen to him making salient points on any other topic for the foreseeable future, if ever.
So in conclusion, YANBU and YABU - Blair can have a valid opinion, but people shouldn’t be shamed for not wanting to listen to him if they find him beyond the pale due to his past actions.
The Iraq War saw countless lives needlessly lost - I agree.
However if we and others both acknowledge this already, then can we put this aside to discuss what the OP @Abstractedobstructed
Agree completely @Abstractedobstructed
Get a grip, just because Baw Jaws and his illegal fuck ups make almost anyone look sensible nothing should make us forget what Blair did. It was an illegal war ffs!!! Half a million innocent human beings were killed!
And he had the audacity to accept an award from Save the Children a while back.
Oh and it was Mo Mowlam that signed in the Good Friday agreement, long may it last.
...also, Blair intervened in Kosovo not long before and saved millions of Muslims from ethnic cleansing; it's not as easy as saying "Blair bad man". I gather in Kosovo he is regarded as a war hero.
I think he made a grave error of judgement in Iraq with horrendous consequences.
I simultaneously think his government did some great things: working family tax credits, devolution of Scotland, Wales, and NI governments, huge increase in surestart centres (since largely disbanded of course), huge school building programme.
I also think he really gets why Brexit is dangerous for the Union in a way that John Major (a man whose politics I had no time for at the time) also does.
Frankly they make today's lot look like amateurs.
Yes - very much so. Particularly as brexit will undoubtedly weaken and probably undo one of the big achievements of his Time in office (The Good Friday agreement). But I can also never quite work out why he is singled out as a war monger as virtually every pm has ‘intervened’ somewhere. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_Kingdom
Can't remember what thread it was on, I think one of the Extinction Rebellion threads, but someone wrote something along the lines of "Only children think in black and white and think of things as goodies vs baddies. Adults don't". I immediately thought 'Well you clearly haven't read any threads about Brexit, or Politics in general then'.
I'm for Brexit and dislike Tony Blair but YANBU.
...can have been wrong about Iraq and still have a valid opinion on Brexit?
I posted Blair's short video about the outstanding difficulties with the Johnson agreement on my FB today and get a load of 'but he took us to war'..." Warmonger, war criminal" type stuff. To be honest I find that kind of polarised blinkered thinking a) frustrating b) immature and c) indefensible.
Surely one can disagree with a person's judgement vehemently on one issue; it does not therefore automatically follow that that person is automatically incorrect on every other subject.
I have always found Tony Blair extremely clear and clear-sighted on why Brexit is so very difficult (nigh impossible) to achieve. It was listening to him on R4 a couple of years ago that clarified the Irish border issue for me when the leaders during the referendum barely mentioned it.
Here's his video btw; been somewhat overtaken by events since.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, quick, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Get started »
Please login first.