Nephew with autism

[Bananacloud]

My nephew who is 6, is currently in a local public school. The school have stated on a number of occasions they’re unable to provide the care he needs.
The parents are reluctant in putting him in a special education school and are fighting the school on this matter.
Where would he be better off though? Will the environment in the public school be better for developing his social skills?

Thank you

[Lonecatwithkitten]

There is no one answer to this question my nephew spent all of primary school with the school saying they could not meet his needs, but refusing to support any assessment process.
He remained in the main stream for the senior school, but in a supportive school of his needs and is currently thriving.
No two children with autism are the same and different schools are better than others.

[LIZS]

Depends if he is getting any support in mainstream. Does he have an ehcp? One to one? Maybe his parents are battling for that before considering ss (where places are very limited anyway. Sometimes schools say this to create impetus to access funding from LA.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

It really depends on his specific issues. Mainstream schools usually try very hard to provide care for mild to moderate autism so if they are saying they can’t provide the care required, and have a paper trail to evidence this supported by CAMHs etc, then it’s possible they are telling the truth and another mainstream or special school might be more suitable

[Bananacloud]

He has a special support teacher, but it’s not going well apparently
The school say they lack in funding so is difficult for them.
They’re stating he’s behaviour is getting worse.
He’s been aggressive and lashing out at other children, he’s supposedly been banging his head on the floor and wall. Can’t say I believe this because he’s never showed any of these behaviours at home and also, no sign of any injury from “banging his head”.
Really don’t think they would lie though!

[Bananacloud]

*His 😬

[noideawheretostart]

Depends on how the child functions in that particular setting.

My DS is 5 and attends a special school. He is very happy there, well taken care of and making progress. I based my decision to send him there solely on whether he would be happy there, and nothing else.

[Sirzy]

Often it’s not even as easy as mainstream or specialist. It’s about the right setting.

Ds is 9 and has an ehc for full 1-1, he is currently in an amazing mainstream school which works brilliantly for him. For secondary it’s a much harder choice as at the moment it seems no mainstream or specialist provision will be able to suitably meet his needs

[TheNoodlesIncident]

It depends. Some children with autism manage well in mainstream if the school is prepared to make adjustments to accommodate that child's needs. The child's individual requirements and difficulties have to be assessed and all taken into consideration. The chief aim is that the child is able to access the curriculum and make satisfactory progress; all adjustments are made towards this end, with the child's physical and mental requirements both applying. Obviously an unhappy, struggling to cope child is unlikely to learn.

Adjustments are very variable, they might include making alternative arrangements due to excessive noise in the classroom, too bright lights in the classroom, pace too fast in the classroom; plus they may require additional staff, external provision being outsourced, separate resources (quiet rooms, etc), the lists are endless.

It isn't simply that a private school will be better for this than a state school, schools vary so much on their provision for pupils with AN. Some are great and some are very poor (and try to manage the pupil out by not providing the support they need, to force the parents to move them). If a pupil needs a lot of support and school are stating that they can't provide it, ultimately it's the child who suffers so whether they go to a special school or not, they need to be somewhere better than the existing school who aren't prepared to help.

My son's state infant school had little classes for a group of children with social communication difficulties (ie any child who struggled with this, not just those with a dx) three times a week. Other schools didn't. The parents have to do their research to find the best place for their child, where he can thrive and progress to the best of his potential. It's hard but worth fighting for.

[WeArnottamused]

Depends on the child, I have 2 dc with Autism, one went through mainstream the younger an additional needs school. How much does his autism impact on his ability to learn & to communicate?

[INeedSleepToo]

Why don’t they move him to a state school if he’s not getting his needs met at public school? Surely that would be the first option. Although state schools have very little funding they do at least have to provide something whereas public schools do not.

[Bananacloud]

@TheNoodlesIncident
If a pupil needs a lot of support and school are stating that they can't provide it, ultimately it's the child who suffers so whether they go to a special school or not, they need to be somewhere better than the existing school who aren't prepared to help.

Totally agree with you on this

[LIZS]

I was assuming public = state

[INeedSleepToo]

lizs sorry rereading it I think you’re probably right. Ignore me totally if that’s the case op!

[averythinline]

I assume you mean local state school rather than public school (in uk that means fee paying) if in the UK.
His parens can ask the council directly for an assessment of his needs they do not need to wait for the school .
google 'council local offer EHCP or council special needs advice ' and it should have the contact details to ask for an assessment.
unfortunately not all schools are as good as identifying needs and supporting children as others - but he is unlikely to get specialist schooling without an EHCP - there should be a special needs advice service as well

[bigbluebus]

My DS displayed a lot of behaviours at school that we didn't see at home - it was his response to being in an environment which made him unhappy. No LA will find a place at a SN school unless it is absolutely necessary and even then they'll try and avoid It!

[ReanimatedSGB]

Special schools are not always the answer: in some areas they are badly run and managed (though this is often down to serious underfunding). Do you know why the parents are resisting a move? Is the local special school one of the 'struggling' (ie useless and chaotic) ones? Your DN might, in fact, be better off at a different mainstream school with better SEN provision.

[ReanimatedSGB]

Of course, the current mainstream school might be one of those where the SLT want to 'manage out' all the DC with SEN in order to improve exam results and cut costs... For some, though not all, DC with SEN, a mainstream environment with additional support is better than a special school.

[Bananacloud]

@ReanimatedSGB yes they’re afraid he’ll pick up bad habits from the other autistic kids....

[Waveysnail]

I have 3 sen kids. Currently in mainstream with 1:1 support. If he doesnt have echp then parents need to apply. Tbh I would want my child in a school where they dont want him. They could try a different mainstream school or an asd unit attached to a mainstream school

[jamoncrumpets]

It sounds like your nephew's parents don't want him to mix with kids like him, which is a shame.

[Someonesayroadtrip]

It's not that simple though. Mum of two children with autism here. Both in mainstream.

To start with, a diagnosis of autism doesn't mean much, it can be a very wide spectrum so no, not every child with autism will need a specialist provision.

Secondly, you can't just chose to put you Child in a specialist school, unless you private that is. For a child to get a specialist school they need a statement/ehcp, these are notoriously difficult to get, and even then, they have to state they need that provision. So one of mine has a statement and his states he gets full time one to one support, my other child is going through the process and ideally I want it to state he will remain in mainstream but in a learning needs base. We shall see though.

Even with that statement/echp naming it there are waiting lists. That is if he gets one, figures are like 3% of children with ALN having one. Last I checked, possibly lower these days. It's a long and time consuming process and if you have to fight it can be financially very expensive.

That said, does he need that sort of support? Schools are massively underfunded and it's getting worse, but they have a duty of care to provide support for each child. If they don't feel they can meet it then they should start the process.

I think it's usually better for most children to remain mainstream, it's very unique to each child and family though. I don't know how my eldest will survive at secondary school, that may present with major issues which will mean he will need a specialist provision but I hope not because he does learn and while things take more time and can be far more difficult for him than other at the end of the days when he is in that environment he will get there, just slower and in his own way.

Its depends a lot on the relationship with the school too. My past school was horrific. They kept saying they didn't have the money and couldn't cope etc etc, which is partly true, but we moved to another school who just had a completely different attitude and it's been life night to day. If this school said they couldn't cope I would immediately listen because I know they are interested in the best interests of the children.

[Bananacloud]

Well their question is, how will he benefit from being around other autistic children.

I believe if he was, he’d probably be more confident and more likely to make friends. But that’s just me speculating.

[jamoncrumpets]

My LA wanted DS to go to mainstream and refused to name the special school I wanted on EHCP. I had to submit tribunal appeal documents. Then a month later a place magically appeared for my DS at our first choice school. Funny that!

You have to go to battle to get these places but it's a battle worth fighting, and parents more often win than not.

I didn't spend a penny, except on postage for the bloody enormous package of supporting documents I sent to the tribunal!

[Someonesayroadtrip]

Ok, if the reason for resisting is that they don't want him to pick up habits form other children sign autism than that is indeed sad and sounds like that are in denial.

The same could be said the other way, that parents don't want their NT children mixing with my children with autism, and believe me that has been said, sometimes understandably but often not. Here is the thing though, my children are welcomed. We have a school with a high rate of SEN, you know what? The children at the school are so tolerant and celebrate everyone's successes. My eldest actually out his hand up to read something in assembly and when the other children saw that they all cheered him in and wanted him to do it, why? Because for years he couldn't do a full assembly, it was too noisy and busy, although everyday his teacher brought him in, covered his ears when it was noisy and took him out when it go too much, slowly his tolerance built up, they push him but also respect his needs but by ding so he comes on leaps and bonds and the other children joining in on the successes just proves it.

Chicken will pick up things from each other, of course they will but hopefully they will pick up good things too and tolerance for others. My other child with autism couldn't be more loving if he tried children with autism are as diverse as children without it, so I'm not really sure what they are worried he will pick up.

[Someonesayroadtrip]

@jamoncrumpets ... well done. I didn't spend a penny other than postage either. My second child is going through the process currently and I'm hoping we don't have to either. But I know parents who ended up using solicitors and private medical reports, I know one who remortgaged to the tune of £30k to pay all the associated costs. But yes, tribunal is free and more often than not, that ability to show you will take it to the ends of the earth is enough, although I'm grateful for the parents who do that it that far so hopefully I don't have to.