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AIBU to be really pissed off with EU countries?

(231 Posts)
FloatingObject Mon 14-Oct-19 19:26:38

This isn;t a general Brexit debate, this is about the rights of foreign nationals NOT being reciprocated as it was claimed they would be.

You know it's serious when the Guardian finally bites the bullet and publishes what it doesn't want to publish. For reference: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/14/britons-in-europe-face-citizens-rights-lottery-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

I love this country (France), I'm not a huge earner but higher than average, I pay high taxes, I volunteer. I feel as if the countries of the EU (with the exception of Ireland, see article) are completely using us as pawns. I get that Brexit is a complete fucking mess that nobody wants. But that's not our fault. We're people who have made commitments to our host countries. We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated. I have a French friend in the UK who doesn't even give a crap about Brexit, she applied for her settled status and has moved on, her big thing is the climate change stuff. This isn't even on her radar. If the reverse was happening there'd be complete fucking outrage in the UK, and cries of "this is just despicable, these are peoples LIVES!!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but I just think although obviously given my situation (and also my politics) I am anti Brexit, I think this is a really poor show from EU countries, and I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board. It's not their problem, but neither is it ours. /rant over

ThinkAboutItTomorrow Mon 14-Oct-19 19:42:24

Well there are older Europeans in the UK who can't work the easy app so two sides and all that.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/08/ive-been-here-50-years-the-eu-citizens-struggling-for-the-right-to-stay-in-britain?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

And the uk is threatening to deport anyone who isn't registered once we leave. (Think only if we crash out though).

BritInUS1 Mon 14-Oct-19 19:45:33

But we won't be part of the EU so you won't have any automatic rights.

I'm sorry you are caught up in this, but sadly this is what our country voted for !

Boom45 Mon 14-Oct-19 20:47:39

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) we've voted away our rights to live in other EU countries. Just think of all the lovely sovereignty and blue passports we're getting in return tho!
And I know an Italian lady who has had her settled status turned down, been here long enough to get married and have a couple of kids but it's more complicated than a ap and proof of address.

OnlyFoolsnMothers Mon 14-Oct-19 20:49:48

Well there are older Europeans in the UK who can't work the easy app so two sides and all that they can book an appointment at their local council office who will do the application for them!

housebuyingistheworst Mon 14-Oct-19 20:51:56

You have the Tory Party to thank for that.

OnlyFoolsnMothers Mon 14-Oct-19 20:53:41

I think what gets me more is the remainers who say on the one side the UK can’t mess with people’s lives but the EU are fine to do so. You can still be remain without having to agree with everything the EU do.

Smellslikebiscuits Mon 14-Oct-19 21:11:39

I’m currently trying to impress upon my parents the importance of registering for Settled Status. They just can’t seem to comprehend that after 40+ years of living, working, and paying taxes here that they ABSOLUTELY MUST DO THIS!
Their heads are buried in the sand and it’s driving me potty with worry.

SesameOil Mon 14-Oct-19 21:16:55

You have a point OP. All member states should be doing the decent thing and allowing those affected to secure their futures without having to pay for a situation that isn't their fault. It isn't the French government's fault that we were stupid enough to call a referendum that presented a non-binary situation in a binary manner, vote for the infinitely more stupid of the two options and then not void it once it became clear that our democracy had been attacked by Cambridge Analytica. But it certainly isn't the fault of OP and people like her either! The Tories are filth but they are at least presiding over a free application process.

smemorata Mon 14-Oct-19 21:20:49

Sorry but I think YABU on two counts. First of all it is not the EU's job to interfere in individual country's immigration policies to that extent. I think there would be an outcry if the EU told each country how to treat UK citizens (and to treat them better than non-EU citizens). Secondly, what are the governments actually meant to do? The UK government could and should have guaranteed their own citizens' rights at the beginning of this debacle but they refused to (and of course most UK citizens abroad didn't even get a vote which goes to show how much the government actually cared....) This was not done as it was decided that Brits abroad could be used as leverage - a disgusting decision imo. Since then it has really not been clear what was going to happen: are we going to actually Brexit? When? Will FOM cease on Brexit day as Patel gleefully announced before it was revealed as being illegal? I don't see how the other EU governments can be expected to blindly follow the UK's lead when it is patently obvious that we have no idea what we are doing. And that is even before you get into looking at the differences in the various set ups in each country. As that article points out, some countries are in a better position than others to register UK citizens as permanent residents. Some might never be ready in time. It is not something that they had planned for because it wasn't their decision!

SesameOil Mon 14-Oct-19 21:50:26

The thing is, France are making a choice to impose income conditions on this. I will hear a great many things against Brexit, but that particular decision is the fault of nobody other than the French government. OP is more than entitled to be pissed off with them about it. Doesnt mean she's not also pissed off about people and institutions who helped create the situation in the first place.

Ihateedmundelephant Tue 15-Oct-19 12:47:03

Blame the morons who voted for Brexit.

VickyEadieofThigh Tue 15-Oct-19 12:52:45

Individual EU Nations can set their own criteria and the EU cannot make them apply similar rules for non-EU nationals. It's our government's fault.

CravingCheese Tue 15-Oct-19 12:54:42

What did you expect? The rhetoric of the leave campaign was attrocious. And yet they won.
And the rest of Europe watched. I know many amazing and lovely British people but the campaign, the aftermath and the current situation did not create good will... At all.

And this was ultimately what the UK voted for. (well, maybe. Whatever Brexit actually is.)

And I 100% agree with smemorata.
I think there would be an outcry if the EU told each country how to treat UK citizens (and to treat them better than non-EU citizens). Secondly, what are the governments actually meant to do? The UK government could and should have guaranteed their own citizens' rights at the beginning of this debacle but they refused to (and of course most UK citizens abroad didn't even get a vote which goes to show how much the government actually cared....) This was not done as it was decided that Brits abroad could be used as leverage - a disgusting decision imo. Since then it has really not been clear what was going to happen: are we going to actually Brexit? When?

countrygirl99 Tue 15-Oct-19 12:56:23

Its what the people voted for. Apparently they all knew what would happen when they voted leave.

Hoppinggreen Tue 15-Oct-19 13:02:30

Why should France or any other nation treat British citizens as EU citizens when we aren’t?
It is people like OP and so many others who end up getting shafted but it’s apparently what we voted for so here we are

VenusClapTrap Tue 15-Oct-19 13:05:43

We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated

What, making them feel unwelcome? That’s how my EU national Dh feels.

Troilusworks Tue 15-Oct-19 13:06:04

Don't be furious with the EU. Be furious with those who voted for Brexit. It's entirely down to them. I do feel for you though, it's an awful situation to be in.

ThatMuppetShow Tue 15-Oct-19 13:07:53

If you want to be fair, compare the process of getting citizenship in France and in England...

But it's also true that France is famous for its love of paperwork, let's be honest, even for its own citizen, so yes, YABU.

FeckOffGraham Tue 15-Oct-19 13:08:23

Yabu. You should be annoyed at those who voted for Brexit. They don't give a fuck about you though.

At least they like you enough in France for you to have a high paying job there.

Monestasi Tue 15-Oct-19 13:10:40

Blame Brexit, not the EU.

I too live in a member state, so I am affected as well.

But I blame the shit show that is the United Kingdom, not the EU country I live in.

YABU

Molteni Tue 15-Oct-19 13:12:47

So you’re angry over a couple of hundred euros … No special treatment is my preferred solution. I already think it’s quite ridiculous that some EU countries have made applying for citizenship easier. There are many categories that are more deserving of a more lenient treatment.

ThatMuppetShow Tue 15-Oct-19 13:15:05

I already think it’s quite ridiculous that some EU countries have made applying for citizenship easier. There are many categories that are more deserving of a more lenient treatment.

I can't really think of one?

SesameOil Tue 15-Oct-19 13:16:13

If you want to be fair, compare the process of getting citizenship in France and in England...

Not at all. Citizenship is optional. I'm strongly opposed to the way the Home Office charge so much more for citizenship applications than they cost to deal with, it's appalling, but people are not being forced into it as a condition of staying in their homes.

CravingCheese Tue 15-Oct-19 13:23:15

VenusClapTrap

It's not just a feeling imo. I lived in the UK during the campaign and the semi recent aftermath. and it was imo very clear: I (and people 'like me') was unwelcome. It was one reason why my (English) DH and I decided to move back home (well, back home for me, not him)..

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