To tell you why I voted to leave(952 Posts)
I'm not brave enough to say this IRL and that is part of the problem.
I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist. I also think that such a pessimistic view of our population is leading to more divisions.
I have wanted to leave the EU since the Maastricht treaty was signed (I even sent off for a copy of it). I always said I'd campaign to leave as soon as I got the chance. I didn't campaign as it would have meant aligning with groups such as Farage which I do think are racist. But I still chose to vote leave.
I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.
I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here. If we don't we should be a lot more welcoming to people from other parts of the world, people who really need asylum. The current situation has desperate people turned away at borders and highly skilled workers having to jump through hoops for a job where they are wanted and needed.
No of course I didn't believe there would be extra money for the NHS. However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it. Not to mention the savings from all the extra MPs.
I'm old enough to remember life before the EU. We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.
I don't think the EU can last much longer and I thought (wrongly) that coming out now in an orderly fashion would be better that having it all crash down around us. I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.
I hate to watch the current mess and no, this isn't what I voted for. But if we can't get out there shouldn't have been a vote and I don't think everything can be blamed on the leavers.
Bloody phone. I am a remainer not a sodding remainder
Interesting to read. My experience of Leave voters is those citing immigration, first and foremost and someone who couldn’t get their child into the school they wanted.
OP, I’d be interested to hear what you thought would happen to the Irish border, before you put pen to paper.
Can someone explain how they consider our own government could have realistically restricted EU immigration whilst remaining in the EU?
I am asking as I don't think they could - at least practically.
I am not asking from a racist hatred of fellow European immigrants even though some people will insist otherwise.
OP I agree entirely and your reasons are exactly mine. I don't see how the EU can continue as a group of separate countries. I think it has to evolve into a united states and I don't agree with it.
What I didn't bargain for was the absolute ineptitude of our MPs and them proving, quite so spectacularly, just how ill equipped they are to run our country.
I don't think the EU can last much longer.
I voted ‘Remain’, but I agree with you on this point. France will likely opt to leave next, followed by The Netherlands. Germany will soon tire of being the default bail-out provider, at which point it’ll all be over.
Well done for putting forward a reasoned account of how you came to your decision. There’s so much name-calling and accusatory assumptions thrown around in relation to Brexit, so I appreciate you making the effort to state your case.
You are brave and that was well put.
BUT (and it is a big one) when you saw they way the campaign was being waged by Johnson, Give and Farage did it not give you pause to think that your reasonable argument had been hijacked by the far right hardliners and that by going Leave you were becoming part of a rallying cry for intolerance?
Almost everything about the Leave campaign was dog whistle and ignorant. There are good arguments against our membership of the EU. Maybe those who voted Remain would be less horrified if there were more people like you in the mix and fewer Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage.
You voted on the EU with principles. That is fair enough. But I’m doing so you opened up this country to far right extremists. Was it worth it?
Op you’re brave. A tin hat is needed though. Good luck.
Stupid phone. Sorry that post was full of errors.
52% of the population that voted. That's all it is.
However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it.
If I thought for a second that the British government could be trusted to give the saved money to the areas that need it, I'd think you'd have a fair point. (However, I do believe in using our contribution to help other countries too so we can all prosper together. Much the same as I support overseas aid.)
we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here.
We can do that anyway, we just chose not to.
We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.
We live in a different global situation now. I don't think that argument stacks up tbh.
I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.
Why would the UK lose their veto?
Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
Well put OP. I too am too scared to tell anyone in real life how I voted. That in itself should be worrying.
I have a colleague who is able to articulate his specific reasons for voting leave. We have had many civil and interesting conversations about it. The problem is my Facebook news feed was and is filled daily with post after post about with racist bigoted comments from people who Voted leave posting for example “piss off we are full” images and “350million to the NHS” and “fed up about these human rights these people get”. I think many others have seen this too.
There are always exceptions.
It isn't you and 52% of the british public, it is you and 36% of the eligible to vote british public. And 34% want to stay, your slim majority is the problem, it is not an overwhelming majority by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm very much a remainer and appreciate the OP's post. The people taking sly digs are just being dicks.
We're a divided country and our politics are broken, because people are no longer willing to try to understand others' viewpoints.
Refreshing to read an articulate reason for voting leave. I respect your reasons, although voted remain and still feel it's the right thing to do.
I dont think all leavers are racist, but all racists voted leave.
I live in a town that overwhelmingly to leave. For them I can assue you it WAS a race issue. I live and work with these people, day in day out and have to listen to the drivel they spout, I know for a fact that they all wanted to leave because of 'foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs' etc. By foreigners they mean Eastern Europeans. Admitedly we do have a lot of them here, but they are doing the jobs that locals didnt want to do. They are known for working really bloody hard as well, far harder than most of the local population.
These people don't give a stuff about trade, or the Euro, or being told what to do or our sovereignty. All they care about is race. And if and when Brexit happens and all the Eastern Europeans left, they'd find another target for their racist beliefs.
Thank you , op. Please get a buffer of food in. Please tell your MP assuming you are against No Deal. That's not the same as Revoke and you can tell her/him that.That's a powerful message from a Leave voter.
can i just point out that 1/3 maybe didnt vote not because they were too lazy to get out of bed but perhaps some at least had other reasons.
i was in hospital having a still birth for example. i think my excuse is a fairly valid one.
i would like more autonomy over our own country. im not racist thick or bigoted. i dont want a no deal but equally i dont want to be held to ransom, either by the EU or our own pig headed politicians.
I think it's important to remember there are leave voters like you - but, unfortunately, coming from a very economically depressed, very white, town which overwhelmingingly voted to leave, you are not the majority, or at least not the noisy majority.
It's very easy for me to see why people have fallen into the idea that small minded racists are responsible for this, when I see them every single day, see their graffiti around my town, see their shitty uninformed union-jacks-and-winston-churchill heavy meme posts on Facebook, see people I thought were previously half decent and friends of friends and family friends and family members coming out with small town racist fuckery. And how they can't wait for us to leave with no deal and get our country back - you might know what the Maastricht treaty is, but many of these people (I would bet my house on saying) didn't know, or still don't, what effect the EU has on us day to day. They've just felt the effects of austerity and picked the nice, easy target the government put in their way for their anger, and that happens to be immigration and the EU.
So yes, people like you exist, and I'm glad - nothing as large or as pervasive as the EU should exist without scrunity and scepticism, and I wasn't 100% sure on remaining myself, but unfortunately there are scores more who are not as well informed. And their vote is just as valid as anyone else's - but it doesn't mean others can't hate the outcome, knowing it comes from a place of misinformation or xenophobia or hate.
Lovely to see somebody strong in their conviction I didn't vote leave, but we are all brothers and sisters.
I see your POV but I voted remain not because I think every element of the leave campaign was flawed but because I didn't want to rock the boat. It seemed obvious that it would be a logistical nightmare to leave. I wasn't even thinking about the deal or current chaos but clearly nothing was thought through about HOW to leave and you all have to take some responsibility for that.
I get what you are saying but I don't happen to agree with you. I think the future is a higher degree of connectedness and cooperation and with that comes compromise.
I have a few EEA leave friends and they are generally sensible with a degree of naivety. I also think the current situation was completely predictable. It was obvious that Cameron would resign and then all bets were off.
I also know a lot of rabid leave voters, who did it because they dont like foreign people and some who really regret it.
The problem for ever more is that there are multitudes of leave and the purposefully had no vision and one version of remain. It was also a vote that allowed one part of the population to take away the rights and benefits from another part of the population and future generation with nothing discernable in return. A removal without any form of compensation.
And mostly because they listened to hard to the nasty people in the nasty party and allowed that to infect the rest of the country like a virus.
Cassian, do you think black people or those in minorities might have been impacted by the immigration that happened under Blair?
Does anyone remember pag Hall, and blunket warning of riots in streets between Pakistani Community and Lithuanians?
Again I despair.
On chanel 4 brexit, Asian man said he is doctor in NHS his family work in NHS they are immigrants and they voted for brexit.
One of the most eloquent leavers at time of the debates was black lady, a writer!
Honestly. How can people be so utterly silly!!
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