To tell you why I voted to leave(952 Posts)
I'm not brave enough to say this IRL and that is part of the problem.
I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist. I also think that such a pessimistic view of our population is leading to more divisions.
I have wanted to leave the EU since the Maastricht treaty was signed (I even sent off for a copy of it). I always said I'd campaign to leave as soon as I got the chance. I didn't campaign as it would have meant aligning with groups such as Farage which I do think are racist. But I still chose to vote leave.
I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.
I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here. If we don't we should be a lot more welcoming to people from other parts of the world, people who really need asylum. The current situation has desperate people turned away at borders and highly skilled workers having to jump through hoops for a job where they are wanted and needed.
No of course I didn't believe there would be extra money for the NHS. However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it. Not to mention the savings from all the extra MPs.
I'm old enough to remember life before the EU. We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.
I don't think the EU can last much longer and I thought (wrongly) that coming out now in an orderly fashion would be better that having it all crash down around us. I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.
I hate to watch the current mess and no, this isn't what I voted for. But if we can't get out there shouldn't have been a vote and I don't think everything can be blamed on the leavers.
You’re brave OP! That’s the first time I’ve seen an eloquent explanation for voting Leave. I may not agree with you but I certainly understand your POV.
Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
Before this turns into a bunfight, I have to ask - what did you honestly think was going to happen?
Aside from everything else, I voted Remain because I didn’t trust that any leaving process would be handled at all competently and would most likely cost billions of pounds and distract from everything else that needed doing. Lo and behold i’ve been proven right.
Did you honestly think that things wouldn’t Turn into a complete and utter shitshow?
I can understand your point of view.
Really, if they had been actually able to prove to me how it would benefit us and put up a good argument, I might have voted leave. The problem was they never did could, and I don't trust politicians enough to do a leap of faith into the unknown. Hence why I voted remain.
You're gonna be slaughtered though i imagine, good luck.
I agree, OP, your reasons and motivations mirror mine.
Can you be more specific please? Lots of thoughts but little facts.
What is your objection to the Maastricht Treaty?
In what way is the EU too beaurocratic?
Did you know that EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy?
Do you understand that the world has changed significantly in the past fifty years?
Why don't you think the EU can last much longer?
What did you vote for?
I voted remain, but one thing this whole mess has opened my eyes to is how very difficult it is for a country - likely any country, to extricate itself from the EU once firmly entrenched. And that's a worry.
If this shitshow gets cancelled tomorrow, I be happy, but I still think that all EU countries should start to consider a plan for getting out that minimises the amount of upheaval involved, should the need arise.
@Windyone I think the OP is forgetting carpet bombing the middle east ….
Many intelligent and non racist people
Your post is interesting and as a remainder I appreciate hearing it
Oh dear op, you really thought you could compare the UK before it entered the EU to know.
You may not be racist but you are very naive.
Thanks OP. I'm an ardent remainer and don't agree with everything you said by any stretch, but I respect you explaining your reasons calmly and eloquently- I just wish other leavers in my "real life" had done so before you
I voted remain for 3 main reasons
1) the promises being made about Norway/ Switzerland/ EFTA madd no sense unless you were on the outside not sure about going all they in. Struck Texas same party, kids table. To leave all those trade deals didn't make sense to me.
2) In an increasingly globalised economic system nation states are becoming less important whether we like it or not and what is going to count is whether you are in a large trading block or not.
3) The Good Friday agreement - I couldn't see a way forward with current technology. Maybe Brexit will drive the technology changes needed to have a frictionless border, but we aren't there yet.
Maastricht is the john major 'ever closer union' one isnt it? It was pretty controversial at the time as i remember.
I also agree not all people were racist. My relative felt immigration from the rest of the world was reduced as vacancies were filled by eu professionals. This relative felt the eu was a bit of a ' white block' and that immigration from commonwealth countries was far better as there was more of a link.
I voted remain. I felt it was better to reform theceu from within.
I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist.
I agree OP, its just tedious now. People who keep trotting it out are simply flaring class divisions.
I think the EU is getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic.
This too. Its become some leviathan, that people couldn't see outside the scope of. But its also why one person I know voted remain - he just doesn't believe you can leave, it was never built up with the idea that anyone that joined could exit.
I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here
Which was, is, and always will be, à matter for your own government, they just chose not to enforce their own rules.
I don't understand, you don't even know what the EU does, but you think it's bad. And now so many of us are right in the shit.
Well put OP.
As an American, I have no dog in this fight as it were, but my sympathies have been with the leavers.
I recall when the EU was the EEC and the focus was exclusively on reducing trading friction and barriers. That made a lot of sense to me, and I think the UK chose wisely to keep the GBP as its currency.
The range of issues the EU controlled seemed to keep growing and growing to the point where the loss of national sovereignty was a real concern. At some point you're either in control of your own nation or you're not.
I am a remainder and I appreciate your post.
Several of my family voted to leave for similar reasons, but are wishing they'd voted to remain.
Others are still as bull headed as ever.
I read this answer to a question on Quora the other day and I thought it was a really thorough and balanced view of the arguments in favour of remaining, which made me realise that I had never seen similar (as in, supported by facts and figures with evidence and citations) for the opposing side.
I don't believe that everyone who voted to leave is thick or racist, but I do think that those who are made some pretty wild statements which seem to have fed into a feeling of general dissatisfaction which was, perhaps, misdirected at the EU. I would be interested to know how many of the fact and figures quoted by Boris and his ilk have stood up to scrutiny, but there's always confirmation bias at play, so I don't believe I'm as objective as I would like to be about the matter!
Can I ask - what was it about the Maastricht treaty that you objected to?
I agree with a lot of what you say and have the same concerns about the EU but ultimately for me there were more reasons to remain. Plus I knew the gov would fuck it up.
Did you not think though that unpicking 40 years of ever closer integration was going to be very difficult if not nigh on impossible though?
You're moving in the wrong circles then.
The 3 I know who have admitted to voting to leave are
A black headteacher.
A software developer who is married to a Lithuanian woman
And a Dr who I don't believe to he racist in the slightest and is one of the most intelligent people I know.
Admittedly there could be more who I know who haven't been vocal about their leave votes but those are the ones who spring to my mind.
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