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Grandparents rights in the UK

(72 Posts)
maybeillkeepthisname Sun 01-Sep-19 01:44:18

Hi,

I'm a long time user but I've NC as I'm aware my sil is on here :-)

I just saw grandparents rights mentioned on another thread and it was commented that a lot of people think gps have none but court cases usually end in contact? I wondered how true this is?

My sister has a 9 week old baby and has low contact with her ILs. Before baby came she saw them maybe once every three months (they live about an hour away) and now she has been seeing them maybe once every few weeks? Her husband (my bil) speaks to his father via text every few days but bil says that they never discuss anything of relevance so his family rarely know what is going on in their lives.

They are lc as bils family are very much 'for show' but no real interest in them as a family and over the years my sister has really struggled with her mil. DS has confided in me for all of this (we are talking 10 years) of snide comments, excluding DS from their family etc. Her mil almost ruined their wedding and acted shockingly badly on the day. As far as I can see (from what I have been told and witnessed) the mother does not accept my sister at all.

When my nephew came along the ILs also completely disregarded DS, throwing a tantrum that they couldn't meet DN the day he was born (both mum and baby were very poorly and everyone was asked to wait as at first DS was not fully conscious and her and bil were told DN may have suffered birth injuries). Thank god DN is the picture of health :-)

Anyway long story short my sister is really trying post birth to build bridges with her ILs and sort things out but she seems to be coming up against hurdles from them all the time. This last week mil has been openly homophobic in front of DS (made worse by the fact our brother is openly gay which mil knows and we love and support him).

DS and BIL came round tonight and we were discussing the whole thing. They have decided to slowly phase the ILs out even more and drop down their visits. BIL has said he knows this will cause a fuss but he is not worried. But they said the MIL has already said before baby was born about her grandparental rights and how she wants to see baby every week. I am concerned they are both being very naive.

So I'm asking if anyone has any experience of rights for grandparents and how likely it is they'd be granted access to my DN. Baring in mind he is so young I can't see how they could prove they have a prior relationship with him?

My sister is reading these comments with me so please don't tell me to mind my own business as she knows i posted and is interested in people's experiences :-)

Sorry if this is confusing or too long! I also have a 10 week old baby so tiredness is definitely getting to us both 😂

Lahlahfizzyfizzydoda Sun 01-Sep-19 01:56:46

I assume your DS (dear sister) lives in the UK?

If so, there are no ‘grandparental rights’ so they don’t need to concern themselves.

BizzzzyBee Sun 01-Sep-19 02:02:57

No such thing as grandparents rights. They can petition for access if they have an established relationship and can show it would be detrimental to the child to lose that. But there are no guarantees.

Jesaminecollins Sun 01-Sep-19 02:10:23

Grandparents have no rights in the UK

MooseBeTimeForSummer Sun 01-Sep-19 02:18:47

This is a useful summary: www.thefamilylawco.co.uk/information/what-are-grandparents-rights/

MamaOomMowWow Sun 01-Sep-19 02:26:41

The link that MooseBeTimeForSummer is useful but it's worth bearing in mind that it's written by lawyers who want to get grandparents to come pay pay for some legal advice about getting contact so doesn't sound too pessimistic about the grandparents' chances.

It's actually very rare for contact orders to be granted against the parent's wishes. It's a 2 stage process to the grandparents have to ask the court's permission first before they can apply for contact.

I personally wouldn't worry too much but I would avoid regular weekly contact that they might argue should continue indefinitely.

hmga90 Sun 01-Sep-19 02:34:20

They get what they deserve I’m afraid.

They don’t have to be best pals with your DS but they can at least be respectful as the wife to their son and especially as mother to their grandson.

I put up with the shit off my own mother for 26 years OP. Tell your DS to walk away now and not even let it bother her. Life is too short.

hmga90 Sun 01-Sep-19 02:35:21

If you want to PM me feel free and I’ll go into more detail- don’t want to be posting publically about it but I assure you I’m 99.9% certain I know how she feels.

pumkinspicetime Sun 01-Sep-19 03:15:45

There are no rights in UK child based law, even parents don't have them. There are only responsibilities and contact arrangements.
These grandparents would be highly unlikely to gain contact against parental wishes.
Don't start contact you don't want to maintain.

Mintjulia Sun 01-Sep-19 03:24:04

Grandparents in the UK don’t have rights to grandchildren, thank goodness.
You dsis and her dh can choose to stay as low contact as they wish.

Piffle11 Sun 01-Sep-19 03:31:14

I have no idea how true this is - as my MIL is a loon - but she went to see a solicitor when her other DIL Stopped her having DGS, and was told that as she had always had regular contact (she had looked after him at least 1 day a week from 6 months), that they could make a case. So like another poster said, don’t start contact that you do not wish to keep up. I certainly wouldn’t be going out of my way to forge a relationship between my child and this woman: She sounds awful, and not the sort of person I would want influencing my child.

Piffle11 Sun 01-Sep-19 03:34:21

Posted too soon! In my MIL’s case, I do think that they were basically trying to scare DIL into agreeing to access without actually going to court. I am not sure How far it would have gone, as BIL managed to smooth things over.

TiredOldTable Sun 01-Sep-19 03:50:10

I know someone who went to court and has rights to see their grandchild. Too outing to say exactly but the child is in care and neither parent sees them (no ss concerns all voluntary)

Rainbowqueeen Sun 01-Sep-19 04:10:58

The first thing the court will look at is the interests of the child. My understanding is that if grandparents were heavily involved in raising their grandchild so it would not be in the child’s best interests due to the close relationship they already had not to see them anymore that contact might be awarded
Not in any other case

Your sister has nothing to worry about

TORDEVAN Sun 01-Sep-19 06:30:23

They have to apply to court and succeed with that to be able to make a petition for access. It is apparently an expensive process.

The judge will assess whether it is within the child's best interests to see the grandparents. If the child hasn't known the grandparents past babyhood I doubt they'd get access.

I investigated this due to issues with my DM and this is what I was told.

maybeillkeepthisname Sun 01-Sep-19 12:04:36

Thanks all :-) that is a relief! I always thought as some of you have said that gps would have to prove they had a relationship with the child already but on another thread it was suggested that wasn't the case!

Hopefully DS will never have to have it come to all this but it's good to know her mil has no basis to her threat!

NoArmaniNoPunani Tue 12-Nov-19 15:03:15

I'm just back from court today. My ex inlaws took me to court for the right to see my son. My husband is dead. My ex inlaws didn't have much contact with my son before my husband's death but the court have ruled that he must have visits in a contact centre with them.

ColaFreezePop Tue 12-Nov-19 15:22:51

@NoArmaniNoPunani I think the most important thing in your circumstances is your husband is dead. The other cases differ because the child isn't in care and the father is alive.

NoArmaniNoPunani Tue 12-Nov-19 15:25:02

Yes I think you're right. I posted on mumsnet 18 months ago when they first started court proceedings and was reassured that grandparents have no rights. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case for me

angell84 Tue 12-Nov-19 15:25:10

But why is she thinking of herself,

And not what is good for the child?

angell84 Tue 12-Nov-19 15:26:22

OP - do you not think it is cruel to stop children seekng their grandparents and vice versa?

This is yet another story - where the parents are thinking totally of themselves

BubblesBuddy Tue 12-Nov-19 15:34:18

Why would it not be in a child’s interests to see grandparents in a contact centre when their son, the father, is dead? It doesn’t seem right for them not to have this supervised opportunity so it’s not so much a “right” but more of a reasonable decision to allow your child contact with his dead father’s family.

BubblesBuddy Tue 12-Nov-19 15:35:42

Plus: your reasons for not maintaining contact have been judged as less important than your child’s welfare in respect of having contact.

Hoppinggreen Tue 12-Nov-19 15:39:00

Bubbles without knowing the backstory and ils behaviour (which I don’t really either) I don’t see show you can say it would be in the interest of a child to have contact with his dead fathers family, you simply don’t know the circumstances for that lady

maybeillkeepthisname Tue 12-Nov-19 15:44:50

@angell84 no I don't actually 🤷🏻‍♀️ I think it's cruel to keep them apart if the grandparents are a positive influence and connection for the child. In my sisters case they have proven to not be. I agree that some people use babies as toys to manipulate family relations but you appear to have read my OP and made your own assumptions that my sister is thinking only of herself and not the affect this will have on her child. My sister has gone out of her way to aid the relationship with her ILS (before and immediately after baby) and it has been hard to watch her be beaten down so apologies if I have jumped on the defensive but please do not just think this is a decision my sister and her husband (their son!) have taken lightly.

I personally wouldn't like my child to be around someone who thinks it's okay to treat their mum negatively and there are other issues going on here. (Homophobia for one is not something we want in our family). Anyway since I've posted this thread a few months ago things have become a lot worse. DSs ILs have threatened to see a solicitor but so far nothing has happened with that.

I probably won't be responding on this anymore as I do not want to put myself or my sister, things are tense enough atm as it is.

Maybeillkeepthisname Tue 12-Nov-19 15:47:50

@ NoArmaniNoPunani I'm sorry your circumstances seem very hard 💐 thank you for your message and I hope things improve for you and your child 💐

angell84 Tue 12-Nov-19 15:48:47

@maybeillkeepthisname I can understand what you are saying. Your sister never wants to see her mil again - and that is fair enough.

But why stop the child seeing the grandparent?

The two relationships are not the same, and I am sorry - she is not thinking of the grandchild in this, at the moment.

Let the grandchild see the granny, your sister does not have to see MiL at all

IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory Tue 12-Nov-19 15:52:09

I’ve been through court and was ultimately court ordered to facilitate contact between DC and grandparents. If you want more information PM (I don’t want to post it here as it will out previous usernames I’ve discussed it under)

But grandparents don’t have any rights to contact. The right to contact is the child’s and contact is for the benefit of the child.

As for your sister the gradual phasing out of the grandparents is the smart way to do it. She must make sure that the grandmother never finds out they are deliberately phasing her out or she will go straight to a solicitor. And don’t cut her off altogether or -Same outcome. But minimal contact with baby massively reduces granny’s chances of getting contact ordered by a court if it comes down to that.

ILoveYou3000 Tue 12-Nov-19 15:57:24

@angell84 Have you missed the part where it's the child's father (the son of the in-laws) who has made this decision?

And how is it in a child's best interests to see adults who are disrespectful to that child's parents and who use manipulation and tantrums to get their own way?

CharityConundrum Tue 12-Nov-19 16:00:45

But why stop the child seeing the grandparent?

Because exposing a child to homophobia and someone who is openly hostile to one of their parents isn't in the child's best interests.

sillysmiles Tue 12-Nov-19 16:02:27

Let the grandchild see the granny, your sister does not have to see MiL at all

But the granny has already shown that she is negative about the mother and homophobic. Why would you want someone that negative and nasty in your child's life?
Not all grannies bake buns and give hugs. Some are mean and toxic influences.

Drum2018 Tue 12-Nov-19 16:08:22

Let the grandchild see the granny, your sister does not have to see MiL at all

Oh please, there are too many posts on MN already about parents who allow their children to see grandparents when they themselves are LC or even NC. It's ridiculous. If you have reason to be LC/NC with your parents or inlaws, then why on earth would you want your children to grow up being influenced by them?

@maybeillkeepthisname congrats to you and your sister on your new babies. Given your bil wants to step back from his parents then your sister should simply cease contact and let him have minimal contact if that's what he wants. She doesn't have to see them or bring the baby to see them.

Genevieva Tue 12-Nov-19 16:38:44

I haven't seen the other thread but this is not true. The only rights that are relevant to the courts are the rights of the child. Politicians have expressly said they do not wish to get involved in the private lives of ordinary families to the level that would be inevitable if there were grandparent rights in law. The only examples I know of are when a grandparent has had a significant caring role in a child's life and continuity of contact is deemed important for their mental health.

CAG12 Tue 12-Nov-19 17:03:48

To all those wanting this child to see the grandparent - OPs already said the relationship is a bad one. Realistically, if yiu had a bad relationship with a family member would you think 'but maybe they will be different with my kid' and willingly hand over your child? I suspect not.

Marnie76 Tue 12-Nov-19 17:32:35

@angell84 won’t listen to facts or reason. Only her agenda matters.

mbosnz Tue 12-Nov-19 17:40:45

'Granny's' own son doesn't want to spend any more time than he can't avoid with his mother. Is the child supposed to wheel its own buggy around to 'Granny's'?

Sounds like 'Granny' has made her bed, and now she's going to have to lie in it.

NoArmaniNoPunani Tue 12-Nov-19 20:29:50

Why would it not be in a child’s interests to see grandparents in a contact centre when their son, the father, is dead? It doesn’t seem right for them not to have this supervised opportunity so it’s not so much a “right” but more of a reasonable decision to allow your child contact with his dead father’s family.

My husband died of a heroin overdose. Despite it being on his death certificate, his dad maintains that I'm lying about it, has shouted and abused me in front of my son. He also threatened to commit suicide in front of my son and told me it would be my fault. But yes, despite all of that, despite the fact that he messed up my husband, and that my husband never wanted him near our son, the court has decided that supported contact is the way forward

angell84 Thu 14-Nov-19 10:00:59

@Marnie76 what exactly is my 'agenda'. If an agenda - is helping a child - then that is a great agenda to have.

I don't know how anyone thinks that they can cut off a grandchild - grandparent relationship, (a vital relationship for the CHILD's wellbeing) because of a few remarks that the grandmother made.

Does this make sense : my MIL pissed me off, so I will stop her seeing her grandchhild for the reat of her life.

No, it is cruel and wrong.
And a court would agree

ILoveYou3000 Thu 14-Nov-19 12:05:37

Does this make sense : my MIL pissed me off, so I will stop her seeing her grandchhild for the reat of her life.

But that's not what happened.

Grandparents aren't always nice people. So, yes those grandparents not seeing their grandchildren is in the best interests of the child(ren). The OP's sister's husband is best placed in this instance to know whether his child will benefit from a relationship with his mother and he seems to think not.

mbosnz Thu 14-Nov-19 12:17:13

I'm sorry a relationship with a grandparent is not a vital relationship for a child's wellbeing - in that they do not have the rights or responsibility to provide for that child's supervision and wellbeing - these being the rights and responsibilities of the parents.

A strong, healthy relationship with a parent or caregiver is vital to a child's wellbeing - a necessity. Grandparents are an agreeable luxury. Which children can very well thrive without, if need be, for whatever reason. That could be distance, that could be death, or that could be toxicity.

My girls refuse to talk to their Grandfather now because of some extremely crass remarks he made to the, and also the way he has treated his family, their father, and myself over the years. The lack of relationship with their sole living grandfather impinges on their quality of life not a whit.

CheshireChat Thu 14-Nov-19 12:32:29

I'd see it as neglectful of me to allow any toxic people in my son's life- sadly, that included my father when he was alive and my ILs so of course I wouldn't allow them access.

I wouldn't withhold access to my mum even if we argued though as her behaviour towards my son is absolutely fine (not that I agree with her 100% of the time!).

bridgetreilly Thu 14-Nov-19 12:40:27

Usually when people are discussing grandparents' rights, it's in the situation following a break up in the parents' relationship - you might have a restraining order on an ex, for example, but his parents might still want to be able to see his child.

When the parents' relationship is still ongoing, it is entirely up to them to decide if and when their children see their grandparents. There is no court which would be interested in even opening a case here.

ColaFreezePop Thu 14-Nov-19 13:21:59

@mbosnz parents don't have rights only the children involved do. Parents just have responsibilities to act in the best interests of their children.

Children have the right to know their familial background and have relationships with family members where it isn't harmful to the child's well-being.

MulticolourMophead Thu 14-Nov-19 13:38:21

@maybeillkeepthisname congrats to you and your sister on your new babies. Given your bil wants to step back from his parents then your sister should simply cease contact and let him have minimal contact if that's what he wants. She doesn't have to see them or bring the baby to see them.

I'd advise your DSis to follow BIL's lead. From the threads I've seen, courts tend to favour the status quo, so if the PIL were to start the court process, the status quo would be the newer reduced contact.

I wouldn't agree to a weekly visit, keep it ad hoc if visiting is unavoidable so it's irregular.

mbosnz Thu 14-Nov-19 14:18:40

@mbosnz parents don't have rights only the children involved do. Parents just have responsibilities to act in the best interests of their children.

You may have noticed I said 'rights and responsibilities - because their rights come via their responsibilities to their children. They have the right to act in what they believe is in the best interests of their children - that could mean minimising or breaking contact with people they believe are harmful to their family unit, for example, threatening its stability, and thereby threatening the children's wellbeing. Even if they are family.

angell84 Fri 15-Nov-19 09:22:06

@CheshireChat - so you are stopping your child from seeing his grandparents (your in laws).

Out of interest - how would you feel if he traces his grandparents as an adult?

Because I know a few people that happened to, (mother wouldn't let them see grandparents), and they all traced their grandparents when they turned 18.

You can only control a child until they are 18.

angell84 Fri 15-Nov-19 09:23:17

@mbosnz at least you let your girls make their own decison

mbosnz Fri 15-Nov-19 09:36:17

@mbosnz at least you let your girls make their own decison

Yes - because there was sufficient geographical distance that he could no longer inflict damage on us. And he'd done it so often in so many ways that we could see him coming and going and protect ourselves from it. But that man brought our marriage as close to break up as anything ever has, and was a major part in another marital break up in the family. That was detrimental to the children involved, for sure.

CheshireChat Fri 15-Nov-19 09:56:54

He can track them down if he likes, he's not my property and he can make up his own mind. At that point however he'll be an adult and hopefully mature enough.

We didn't just have a minor disagreement though- they wanted to ultimately foster DS as they wanted to be paid for it hmm so funnily enough I want nothing to do with them and made sure there was no way they could approach DS.

I don't feel the same way about the entire extended family btw, regardless of whether I personally like them or not.

Screwtheclockchange Fri 15-Nov-19 11:04:04

"A strong, healthy relationship with a parent or caregiver is vital to a child's wellbeing - a necessity. Grandparents are an agreeable luxury."

Yup. A loving, healthy relationship with a grandparent is a wonderful thing. I miss my grandmother every day and I'm very grateful for the time I had with her. But a child with a stable, loving relationship with their main caregiver isn't going to be damaged by the absence of grandparents. I know plenty of people who didn't have any living grandparents left by the time they were born. It's a shame and they'd have liked to have met their grandparents, but I doubt any of them would say that they'd missed out on something fundamental to their emotional health.

Isleepinahedgefund Fri 15-Nov-19 11:43:36

I think all you can do is proceed how you see fit (ie not seeing the in laws) and then see what comes of it Respond to any court papers you get - but I bet they don’t bother. Concentrate on what’s best for your child, which includes NOT seeing you being treated like crap.

I keep my parents at arms length because they aren’t very nice to me - part of it is not wanting to subject myself to them and part of it is to protect my DD from seeing me being treated like that. However she sees them once a week and they really are very good to her, she loves them dearly and I wouldn’t take that relationship away from any of them.

Facilitating this is very easy for me though as they only live up the road so they collect her from school and drop her off when I’m home from work which takes 2 mins and so there’s no opportunity for them to start on me. I guess if they live an hour away it would be much harder in this situation as you’d have to be fully involved in the visits. If I had to be more involved I wouldn’t.

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 11:38:49

What I think is very sad,

Is that the mother ultimately decides who is bad, who is not worthy, who is okay to be around the child.

The mother pushes her own views onto the child. She doesn't see the child as a seperate entity.

"I don't like my mother in law, so I will not let my child see my mother in law"

The mother says how bad everyone else is, when she is often far from perfect herself.

I feel very strongly and sad about this. From my own story and other stories hat I have heard.

My mother stopped me seeing my grandmother, my father's mother. My grandmother was incredibly kind to me. My mother was angry and nasty to me. She liked the power and control. She enjoyed hurting ny granny and expressing her power

She moved us to a different country. She stopped me seeing her until I was 18.

I will never forget the journey when I was 18 and I travelled to another country to see my grandmother. (Not telling my mother I was going,)z .

We both collapsed into each other's arms and cried and cried and cried. She told me "I never forgot you".

And "my love for you is bigger than anything that she could do".

But I lost all of those precious years with her

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood Sun 24-Nov-19 11:49:02

A grandparent does not have an automatic right to apply to the Court for a child arrangements order (unless the child has lived with them for 2 years).

A grandparent (or indeed another friend or relative) can apply to the Court for leave to apply for an order. This is the ‘filter’ as it were to weed out applications without any merit.

All applications are fact specific. But save for situations where the grandparents have previously been very involved with a child and THE CHILD will be feeling the loss of the relationship (the needs of the child is the focus not the needs of the adult) even if any order is.made it would be for a very limited and low level (identity contact so the child knows who it’s grandparents are). Typically an order for Christmas / birthday presents and possibly the occasional visit (though even that would be highly unusual where there is not an existing relationship).

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 11:52:15

@ladymacbeth you can say "the needs of the child are paramount".

But as right now, they are not.

There are huge problems with mothers restricting access from fathers and grandparents. And ultimately the CHILD being hurt.

That is why we have so many people campaigning for father's rights and grandparent's rights today.

The whole system needs an overhaul. Mothers are hurting so many people.

ThatssomebadhatHarry Sun 24-Nov-19 12:03:54

There have been cases where parents split and grandparents have fought for access to keep an already established relationship, even then it’s not a guarantee. This is not the same situation as your friend.

They get to decide what is best for their children. Removing a toxic homophobic grandmother who hates her grandchildren’s mother is in the best interests of that child.

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 12:10:42

@thatssomebadhatharry. God almighty. Why does it matter if she is homophobic. Gay marriage has been legalised in our time.

It wasn't legalised in their time. They grew up in an era when it was criminalized. I think that I would have a little understanding of the era that they grew up in, and that it takes time to change an opinion.

Can any mothers on here look at this honestly:

Do you think that mothers have too much power in this society. And that they abuse that power?

I am a woman, and I can see this as clear as day.

ThatssomebadhatHarry Sun 24-Nov-19 12:24:17

angell84

So parents keeping out homophobic people from their children’s lives is abuse their power as parents. Heard it all now.

The ‘different era’ argument is a pathetic way to justify someone’s behaviour. My own in laws don’t have a hint of homophobia neither does my 94year old grandmother. My other grandmother always found racism the most appalling thing as she had seen so much suffering in her life. Yet was brought up in a time when this was an accepted viewpoint.

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 12:28:37

@thatssomebadhatHarry.

Same sex marriage was legalised in the U.K in 2013.

So everyone in the U.K was told that gay marriage was immoral and illegal for a long, long time.

You grew up in this era, they grew up in that one, I think not having an understanding gor a different era - is a bit small minded.

Steps in equality for same sex relationships is only a very, very recent thing.

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 12:32:24

Personally, I absolutely love seeing same sex people have the same rights and equality.

One of my best friends is gay.

And one of my other best friends is what you could call a little "homophobic". He woukd never say anything to a gay person, but he is a bit scared of the whole idea , because he was brought up in a very traditional area. I am still friends with him. He is a lovely person

ThatssomebadhatHarry Sun 24-Nov-19 12:35:23

One of my best friends is gay.

Really, this argument as well?

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 12:40:31

@thatssomebadatharry. Eh how is it an argument?

I am explaining that of my two best friends:

My longest two best friends,

One is gay
And
One is homophobic.

And I accept the second friend because I know how he was brought up.

SemperIdem Sun 24-Nov-19 12:41:59

@angell84 you realise gay people existed in this era too, alongside the homophobes? They didn’t all arrive filled firmed adults across multiple generations in 2013. The more right thinking members of society who managed to not be homophobic, despite being “told” homosexuality was wrong lived in “that era” too. Straw man argument.

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 12:45:57

@semperidem. Of course I know that.

As a society we have advanced , which is amazing.

But I know the fear that was beat into some people's heads, about homosexuality. And I know that can be hard to change.

Even my gay best friend told me that he doesn't particularly care about homophobic slurs , he knows it takes time for society to change. He has so happy in his own life, and he is getting married next month.

ILoveYou3000 Sun 24-Nov-19 13:09:05

It wasn't legalised in their time. They grew up in an era when it was criminalized. I think that I would have a little understanding of the era that they grew up in, and that it takes time to change an opinion.

You're assuming the grandparents are elderly. They could be in their 40s. And homophobia is never acceptable. Age is no excuse for bigotry.

angell84 Sun 24-Nov-19 13:49:06

@ILoveYou3000 so do you hate the government then?

Because they made homophobia acceptable for hundreds of years.

Do you hate the country that we live in?

Because it made homophobia acceptable for hundreds of years.

Same sex marriage has only been allowed for 15 years.

The government said to people:
'Homosexuality is illegal and terrible and bad and outlawed.'
It was condemned by the GOVERNMENT. People were told to think this.

And then the government tells people:
"Oh wait Homosexuality Is legal and acceptable and fine."

How can you not expect people to be confused. It used to be illegal.

The government has alot of power in telling people what they should and should not think.

Anyway I am accepting of people who are still afraid of homosexuality. If you are not - that's your deal

GnomeDePlume Sun 24-Nov-19 13:51:35

Having a relationship with GPs is fine if it works for everyone. On the whole it isnt a necessary relationship. I grew up with only seeing GPs every few years (geography). So far as I am aware my life wasnt impacted by this, it was just my normal. Other people see GPs frequently and that is their normal.

MulticolourMophead Sun 24-Nov-19 14:09:10

It wasn't legalised in their time. They grew up in an era when it was criminalized. I think that I would have a little understanding of the era that they grew up in, and that it takes time to change an opinion.

You are being very patronising to older people. It may have been criminalized in their era. But that doesn't mean that all people from that era were homophobes, or that they aren't able to adapt their opinions.

You are simply trying to justify having a relationship with grandparents at all costs, simply because they are grandparents.

Newsflash, nasty people don't magically turn into nice grandparents just because their own children became parents, you know. Too many people try to justify shit behaviour with "because, Family". Being related is not a get out of jail free card.

Butterymuffin Sun 24-Nov-19 14:16:08

@angell84 I'm sorry that your mother was nasty to you. But you are massively projecting your own situation onto all others. Most mothers aren't like this - it's far more common that mothers sacrifice their own comfort and put up with all kinds of shit from extended family because they feel they shouldn't make a fuss.

OP, a lot of grandparents who say this are all talk and it becomes a different matter once they realise that a) court takes time, trouble and money and b) their own behaviour will be scrutinised, not just yours. Let them make threats. You just keep on your own path.

Bibijayne Sun 24-Nov-19 19:33:57

If your sister and BIL are together and happy with this, then the courts cannot do anything. Especially as the baby is so young.

Tell them to carry on with their plans. MIL can do as she wishes, if she talks to a solicitor they will say much the same.

SnowsInWater Sun 24-Nov-19 21:38:14

I've mediated a few cases between grandparents wanting contact with their grandchildren and the children's parents. I hate those cases tbh as they inevitably end up with the parents offering token contact to stop the grandparents going to Court, but you know it will never happen. Lots and lots of hurt and sadness. Basically what the families really needed was some kind of family therapy rather than mediation but they were never up for that.

angell84 Mon 25-Nov-19 17:26:38

I hate mothers that keep children away from grandparents. It is just utterly? Utterly selfish.

As I said - I was kept away from my grandmother for 16 years. And we loved each other. We lost a whole life together. When I tracked her down , and we stood in her kitchen. She held me in her arms, we were both roaring crying and she told me, "I never forgot you".

I shouldn't have had to do that. Don't put your children through that.

My granny died not long after we were reunited, so it was a whole, wasted life. I can never get back.

Think before you act

TurOlive Mon 25-Nov-19 19:42:03

I hate mothers that keep children away from grandparents. It is just utterly? Utterly selfish

Under any circumstances? What if the grandparents are abusive?

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