Brandishing the whole year group(49 Posts)
I’m interested in hearing from teachers and parents. Is it fair to label an entire year group as ‘bad’ because of a few individuals and some complex needs? Will the good ones in the year start to believe they are bad?
Hmmm, in my experience as a Primary School TA, it definitely does happen - even though everyone knows it shouldn't!
My own son was in a year group containing a large number of challenging children & they were/still are often referred to as 'the year 6 from hell' which used to really bother me, as there were dozens of wonderful, beautifully behaved, kind, sweet, honest kids in that year group - my son included! In fact, out of 60, there were probably only 6 or so that were VERY difficult, for one reason or another.
I found that most of the resilient, confident, high achieving kids were able to shrug it off & knew that nothing negative was ever aimed at them but the more sensitive souls did take it to heart. I've always detested the approach of 'punishing the many for the sins of the few' - SO out-dated & unfair.
I would refer to a 'bad' year as one where lots children are underachieving but wouldn't let the pupils know that (high school). Sadly that's what league tables
My son's year at primary is a challenging year as it's 2/3 boys and the girls don't particularly get on with each other either.
I knew full well in year 7-9 that my class was considered 'bad' and 'naughty' by several teachers. And yes it did start to affect how other teachers perceived us. And it was in contrast to the couple of wonderful teachers who basically taught like they just couldn't believe we wouldn't like their subject (if that makes sense!) and seemed to care about us. Guess which teachers the whole class actually behaved for... Which if course then became self fulfilling for the teachers who thought we were bad.
As one of the 'clever' and we'll behaved students it didn't affect me in terms of work because I just got on and did my homework etc. But I never got inspired to try really hard in the classes who teachers thought we were bad so cruised through at natural ability level when with hindsight maybe I could have done better. However, being the good kid in a bad class did mean that I was allowed to get away with low level boundary pushing because it was still better than some of the rest of the class. So I didn't really care about being late for morning registration, did my own reading in classes rather than following the group, and I didn't bother with tasks like weekly goal setting in our planners that I considered pointless and beneath me. Look back I was a little bit of an arrogant shit in my own way but the teachers let me get away with it. If I had been in one of the classes considered good I would probably have been pulled up on it earlier - it wasn't until year 12 that I finally got pulled up on reading ahead in class and told that I had to join in with group discussions etc
So yes, there will be an impact on the kids knowing they are considered 'bad' (though I am not sure how that will manifest at primary school) and yes the kids probably will know without being told. And even if the teachers don't actually think it's a bad year, the fact the kids think they think that is a problem.
Some Year groups are awful and some are lovely, often its down to the HoY.
This is primary
Some Year groups are awful and some are lovely, often its down to the HoY.
TBH OP, all this 'is it fair that ....' well, thems the breaks unfortunately. Do you really think that there aren't occasions when school staff collectively breathe a massive sigh of relief and punch the air when THAT year group finally leave for good?
Peer pressure is a wonderful thing. If you have a hard core of little sods, with their hangers on, if the a privilege is taken away from the whole year group, then the others will round on them, it can be very effective
they are told that the year group they are in is “bad”.
I'm not denying that something maybe going on with staff attitude, but no teacher will have used the term bad, so there is some interpretation going on.
If something is affecting your dd's self confidence then raise with class teacher but please do so with an open mind .
Not very helpful to be so pedantic, I am sure we all know exactly what the OP means.
I don’t have a fucking clue what OP means hth. You can’t just redefine words individually and expect everyone to understand.
Of course there are children with complex needs who are lovely and sweet. There are some in the year who wouldn’t hurt a fly.
There are also children with no additional needs who behave in a naughty way.
I wouldn’t wish any child to believe they are bad but to understand that their behaviour on those occasions is unacceptable.
I would assume their parents are fully aware. And together with the school they work together.
I’m asking about the ones who are good ALL the time (in school) and how they would feel when they are told that the year group they are in is “bad”.
This is primary school.
Also, would you mention it to the school?
If so, how?
My DD1 hideous secondary did it to her year group. For years. Broke her. Complete lack of any positive encouragement. Constant negativity. They didn't allow them to have a year 11 prom because the year before bad behaved badly and they hadn't "proved" they were any better. 200 kids. Disgusting school. Suffice to say my DD2 is going to a different school.
Whole year group punishments are not on, in my opinion
As a teacher I tend to feel bad for the ‘good’ kids who have to tolerate the ‘bad’ kids all day long. A few can certainly change the whole dynamic of a year group making them less pleasant to teach, but certainly your child won’t be being labelled as ‘bad’ on the behaviour of others, unless their behaviour is also poor e.g they laugh along, or go along with bullying behaviour without instigating
The simple answer is "no, of course not".
But I'm wondering what age / year group, what has actually been said by teacher(s),
Are they in Year 9?
If so, he’s only got another week of it before another year group pick up the baton.
The teacher shouldn’t be saying this, although I know I was lucky that my dc’s were in ‘nice’ classes, ie, everyone got on, no major bullying issues, generally good behaviour, whilst a friends dc had a. ‘Bad’ class, ie, kids not wanting to work, messing around, problematic friendship groups etc.
here are some very naughty children and there are several with very complex needs. BUT there are also many excellent, incredibly lovely and sweet children in the year
Agree with @hazeyjane, and I would add that most “very naughty” children are also lovely and sweet. That’s such an offensive thing to say about children who struggle in school.
There was a year group in my dc primary, that had the same label, there were boys than girls I believe, consequently several parents took their children out of this particular primary school!
Dc1 has been in a year where the year as such was known to be ‘bad’.
He knew it, another parent whose child (with SN) was in the same year knew it.
So yes it does happen.... (that was secondary)
Talking to primary teachers, it’s clear that they will refer to a specific year/class as being ‘bad’ or hard work. But I know that, in that case, what they mean is ‘a class that is harder to handle/with more complex cases’ and that they will never say that to the kids.
Is it fair to label an entire year group as ‘bad’ because of a few individuals and some complex needs? Will the good ones in the year start to believe they are bad?
It's not good to label any child as "bad"...the children with complex needs, and those who may be struggling with their behaviour shouldn't believe they are bad either.
There are some very naughty children and there are several with very complex needs. BUT there are also many excellent, incredibly lovely and sweet children in the year
Jeez, you know children with complex needs can also be lovely and sweet, and some children can 'be naughty' for a time, and also be lovely and sweet.
They did this to my year 20 years ago. For those that were badly behaved it became a badge of honour and whole year or class punishments became funny to them and were not a deterrent. For those that were good it became frustrating and for those in the middle it slid them towards bad because they were getting punished for it anyway so may as well.
I think it's appalling to label anyone/year bad, especially if there are complex needs involved. It can become a self fulfilling prophecy
Some year groups are harder to manage than others without a doubt. As are some classes.
Each have their unique mix of personalities within them. Sometimes the children gel and work well together and at other times they clash.
Some children dominate what's going on and some are downright rude and disrespectful to everyone around them.
So yes, there are 'good and bad' years/classes to teach. Not because everyone in the class is a vile little toe rag but because as a group /*en masse* they are difficult to work with.
It doesn't even need to be said. I was in a small school and I knew that teachers didn't like my year. I'm not sure it was ever said directly but I was very certain of it - I'd never even thought of how I knew until now.
It is unfair to label the whole class/year because of a trend. Ime the good ones continue to be fine as long as they have adequate support elsewhere, ie at home. The middle of the road ones go with the prevailing mood of the day. Eg if everything starts off calm and orderly, it continues like that and the disruptive ones have little effect. But if the day starts with a pupil messing around and getting away with it, that also sets the scene for the day.
I also think the teachers get a hard time for labelling the group. At our school it is definitely the parents outside the year group who have labelled the year 'bad' because of their child's experience of the group. Eg younger pupils happily playing football. The 'bad' year group come out, some pupils from this year take away the and dominate how the game is played. The older siblings of the same group encouraging they younger siblings to misbehave as the little ones are less likely to get in trouble than then big ones 'who should know better' and so on it goes.
I have a child in the 'bad' year and am always being told about how kind and helpful they are from teachers and parents alike. So I don't think the 'good' kids do always get tarred with the same brush.
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