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What on earth is going on in America??

(871 Posts)
Nanny0gg Wed 15-May-19 10:27:27

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

nancy75 Wed 15-May-19 10:32:23

Sharia law - Christian style!

All the people that support this will bleat on about their freedoms, their right to have a gun, their right to free speech but they are happy to take away women's rights to body autonomy

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 10:33:56

OP you might care to take a look at the UK before making such an assertion. Whilst I don't disagree with you sentiment, we can hardly cast aspersions when we have our own home grown example.

Nesssie Wed 15-May-19 10:36:38

Disgusting. Cannot believe they are going backwards on this issue. Hopefully it'll get blocked at every avenue.

AutumnCrow Wed 15-May-19 10:37:52

I'm bloody horrified. There will end up being a horribly dangerous black market in abortions. Wealthier women or girls from wealthier families will use clinics in Canada and Mexico or more progressive states; poorer women and girls will be thrown under a bus.

But let's not forget that within the UK a similar system exists in Northern Ireland, where women and girls must find money to travel for an abortion (and, mostly, keep it a secret).

nancy75 Wed 15-May-19 10:38:39

Particularly nice that they didn't pass the exemption for rape or incest.

The sperm of a rapist is worth more than the rights of a rape victim

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 10:39:26

But let's not forget that within the UK a similar system exists in Northern Ireland, where women and girls must find money to travel for an abortion (and, mostly, keep it a secret

Exactly.

nancy75 Wed 15-May-19 10:40:39

Northern Ireland should be brought in to line with the rest of the UK without a doubt, however the laws there are preexisting and are being rallied against - in the USA they are actually going backwards

TheInebriati Wed 15-May-19 10:42:03

They are also talking about banning some forms of contraception that work post fertilisation, such as the coil.

HoustonBess Wed 15-May-19 10:46:40

The same people who are pushing hard right issues in the US are bankrolling brexit. We have plenty of work to do here without worrying about the US so much.

Many of the brexit party types are from spiked, a media source funded by the Koch brothers who are the worst of the right.

Spinnaret Wed 15-May-19 10:48:01

Do women from NI get prosecuted if they come to Britain for a termination? (Not that they should have to etc).
Women in the US will risk prosecution if they go out of state. And it is rolling backwards. Whereas in NI, it 'just' hasn't rolled forward.

Persimmonn Wed 15-May-19 10:48:28

The sperm of a rapist is worth more than the rights of a rape victim

Chilling.

Nesssie Wed 15-May-19 10:48:37

We have plenty of work to do here without worrying about the US so much. I think we are all capable of worrying about multiple issues, and this one is a pretty major step back for women's right.

JohnWolfenstein Wed 15-May-19 10:48:53

Gilead

DaisiesAreOurSilver Wed 15-May-19 10:49:29

Frightening.

GiveMyHeadPeaceffs Wed 15-May-19 10:49:58

Women from NI are not prosecuted for travelling for an abortion, so not quite the same. However it's about time NI was forced to come under the same laws as the rest of GB.

DGRossetti Wed 15-May-19 10:50:11

OP you might care to take a look at the UK before making such an assertion. Whilst I don't disagree with you sentiment, we can hardly cast aspersions when we have our own home grown example.

The rape clause for child tax credits for a start. Barbaric and guaranteed to cause child poverty. People (including women) voted Tory knowing it was going to happen. And they wonder why they're contemptible.

SemperIdem Wed 15-May-19 10:52:55

As I see it -NI’s abortion law is backwards but momentum being gained towards bringing them in line with rest of the UK.

The USA’s abortion laws are in line with the 21st century thinking of most Western nations but momentum is being gained towards going backwards and removing women’s bodily autonomy.

I find what is being actively worked for in the USA far more worrying than what is being worked for in NI, as a result.

Karmin Wed 15-May-19 10:53:11

But why did Alabama vote for this?

Karmin Wed 15-May-19 10:54:20

In 2018 some 58% of the US population thought abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% said it should be illegal in all or most cases

Hopeygoflightly Wed 15-May-19 10:54:37

Yes bloody Americans! EXCEPT - oh, look there's a part of the UK that has neither abortion OR marriage equality, against the wishes of the majority of the people who live there. AND Westminister seem to give a flying F@ck about that. People in glass houses.

BarbarianMum Wed 15-May-19 10:55:58

Gilead is what'shappening. Let's hope the response is a reopening of the underground railway. sad

nancy75 Wed 15-May-19 10:58:13

Hopeygoflightly just because Westminster don't care about NI doesn't mean everyone doesn't care.
America is actively going backwards on Women's rights when it comes to body autonomy & it's possible to be angry about both situations at the same time.

Bentley111 Wed 15-May-19 10:58:59

The sperm of a rapist is worth more than the rights of a rape victim

Truly sickening.

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 10:59:05

I can't help feeling religion has a role in Alabama and NI. I know it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush, but religious zealots are at least a part of the problem.

nancy75 Wed 15-May-19 11:02:06

You have to wonder if the wife of one of those men that voted for this became pregnant due to rape (which I sincerely hope never happens) would they stand by her and raise the baby as their own?
My guess would be not

cdtaylornats Wed 15-May-19 11:02:40

against the wishes of the majority of the people who live there

How do you know this. People there keep electing primitives so that would suggest they are ok with the politics.

Wheresthebeach Wed 15-May-19 11:03:46

Its truly scary. Such a trend of hating women.

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 11:04:16

People there keep electing primitives so that would suggest they are ok with the politics.

Er no - FPTP electoral system means we often get some primitives that the majority of people voted against in power - see current Tories.

wellballstoyou Wed 15-May-19 11:04:23

OMG. And what about Georgia wanting it banned after 6 weeks?

WTF america!

Nesssie Wed 15-May-19 11:04:47

Hopeygoflightly No one is saying the UK is perfect. And no one is saying the whole of America is crazy.
But the UK is working towards making abortion legal (the massive RoI vote last year) and we certainly aren't going backwards!

BarbarianMum Wed 15-May-19 11:05:13

The sad thing is both the US and NI are democracies. So if the majority of the adult population (51% of which is female) really thought this was wrong and were prepared to back that up with their vote, they could change things. Guess they're too busy.

AlaskanOilBaron Wed 15-May-19 11:06:01

Crazy, but in no way representative of the US as a whole.

DGRossetti Wed 15-May-19 11:06:52

But why did Alabama vote for this?

Why did people vote Tory ? Or DUP come to that ?

Nancydrawn Wed 15-May-19 11:08:07

Karmin, those statistics are for America as a whole and not Alabama. In the most recent election, 60% voted for a state amendment to "'recognize and support the sanctity of unborn life and the rights of unborn children, including the right to life' and to state that no provisions of the constitution provide a right to an abortion or require funding of abortions."

Very honestly, most of them genuinely think that abortion is murder. They think that life begins at conception and terminating that life is absolutely no different than infanticide. That's why there's no exception for rape and incest. In their eyes, murder trumps rape as a crime, abortion is murder, and thus there should be no exception except if life is otherwise at risk (e.g. life of mother).

Now, I think the whole thing is deeply fucked up. There are weird carveouts for IVF that argue that conception is only conception within a woman's body. There is about zero separation of church and state. There is no knowledge of biology.

But still, that's how they would articulate their case. And they passed this explicitly so it would get challenged in the court and go all the way to SCOTUS to try and overturn Roe. Which is entirely possible with the two new very conservative justices.

So, finally, for all those Americans out there who voted for Trump/didn't vote for HRC: thanks, ever so fucking much.

leckford Wed 15-May-19 11:08:23

We have been to the US quite a few times, outside the big cities Americans are very religious in a way few U.K. people understand. We have long ago escaped from the control of the various churches.

AgileLass Wed 15-May-19 11:08:52

But the UK is working towards making abortion legal (the massive RoI vote last year) and we certainly aren't going backwards!

The Republic of Ireland and the UK are separate countries, you know. hmm

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 11:08:55

The sad thing is both the US and NI are democracies. So if the majority of the adult population (51% of which is female) really thought this was wrong and were prepared to back that up with their vote, they could change things. Guess they're too busy.
Dunno about US but you'd need way more than 51% in NI due to our shitty electoral system - unless they had a referendum of course - and we all know how well that seems to work smile

00100001 Wed 15-May-19 11:09:55

Surely doctors could just basically...lie, and say the mother's life is at serious risk... ?

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 11:11:20

There is about zero separation of church and state.

It's ironic isn't it? In theory there is 100% separation between Church and State in the USA - waaaaaay more than, say, in the UK. But in practice....

PickAChew Wed 15-May-19 11:14:07

The abortion situation in Northern Ireland does not make the removal of the right to an abortion in certain US states any less horrific. Some of the detractors in this thread may not have the same skills but I am quite capable of having thoughts on the issues both in the UK and elsewhere.

viques Wed 15-May-19 11:15:06

And of course it won't stop abortions, rich women will pay to get safe ones , poor women will risk their lives to get unsafe ones.

But hey, they are only women and if it means smug, self satisfied mysoginists will sleep safe in their comfortable beds happy to know they are doing gods will and saving baby souls for Jesus then so be it.

Hallefuckingluyah..

BarbarianMum Wed 15-May-19 11:17:01

Id hope you'd get at least some of the male vote badly but Yes, point taken.

DoomOnTheBroom Wed 15-May-19 11:18:02

Surely doctors could just basically...lie, and say the mother's life is at serious risk... ?

But why should women have to seek out a doctor willing to lie and then place their trust in that doctor to not turn them in to the authorities? It would be stressful enough carrying an unwanted pregnancy that you cannot legally end without then having to find a sympathetic doctor and trust that they're genuinely sympathetic and not just an abortionist hunter who is going to pass your details over to the police.

Nesssie Wed 15-May-19 11:19:10

AgileLass Don't be pedantic. 'British Isles' then. The UK had a big influence in the RoI vote, as many of the women seeking abortions travelled to the mainland for legal abortions.

Quellium Wed 15-May-19 11:21:19

I'm really worried about what the future holds for women in general. I see Brexit as part of the trend / tendency that seeks to remove women's rights. They'll be the first to go.

Hopeygoflightly Wed 15-May-19 11:22:10

The NI voting system is so messed up that you don't get the govn you want ACTUALLY. Sinn Fein are very socially liberal - but do YOU want to vote for the political wing of the IRA? I know I don't ( I'm catholic ) and most protestants sure as hell can't bring themselves to. DUP? Absolutely crazy right wing evangelical bigots - but not the political wing of the IRA at least. Can't vote for them either. Aliiance - better but like voting for the Greens.
Westminister has given the DUP too much power and influence.
Oh, and abortion rights in NI are NOT moving forward - and ROI is a separate country for those holding it up as an example of progress.

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 11:24:59

@PickAChew I think the point being made was in the context of the headline and thrust of the OP - I don't think anyone is saying we're incapable of being horrified by both.

DarlingNikita Wed 15-May-19 11:25:49

It's ironic isn't it? In theory there is 100% separation between Church and State in the USA - waaaaaay more than, say, in the UK. But in practice....

I've always thought this. It really fucks me off when Americans scoff at our system. Hypocrites.

SallyWD Wed 15-May-19 11:26:32

Many (probably most) Americans are very Conservative, much more so than most Brits. I have a lot of American online friends due to being a member of a Cancer forum and I'd say about 90% of the are anti-abortion, right wing Christians. There's nothing wrong with being Christian but the Americans I know are very socially Conservative with it too. I'm sure this new bill has a hell if a lot of support.

NotDavidTennant Wed 15-May-19 11:27:22

TBH I don't find it that surprising. Many state legislatures (especially from states in the south and mid-west) have never supported abortion, and were unwillingly forced to accept it due to the 1973 Roe v Wade Supreme Court ruling.

Now that the Supreme Court has a conservative majority they are hoping that they can overturn Roe v Wade and go back to banning abortion as they always wanted to do and as, in many cases, their local electorate want them to do.

lisalocketlostherpocket Wed 15-May-19 11:33:45

he Republic of Ireland and the UK are separate countries, you know

yes us uneducated thickies in England do know that.

But while the whole of the island of Ireland banned abortion, there wasn't much you could do in NI. If a woman from NI can just walk across the border to get an abortion in the Republic, the law in NI becomes unenforceable. So yes, it does make a difference.

AgileLass Wed 15-May-19 11:33:51

AgileLass Don't be pedantic. 'British Isles' then. The UK had a big influence in the RoI vote, as many of the women seeking abortions travelled to the mainland for legal abortions.

‘Mainland’? hmm You need to revise your outdated colonialist vocabulary. ‘British Isles’ is also an outdated term, FYI.

TheVanguardSix Wed 15-May-19 11:35:39

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheFastandCurious Wed 15-May-19 11:36:55

It’s religion. Religion and politics should never mix. While I believe everyone should have the right to practice their faith, it should never be used as a means to control populations.

AuntieUrsula Wed 15-May-19 11:37:19

It's not the women that would be prosecuted, but the doctors carrying out the abortion. So I think it would be difficult for women to find amenable doctors willing to lie. The article I read says there's already only 3 abortion clinics in the whole of Alabama, as presumably most doctors don't want to get involved in this particular branch of medical practice no matter what their private views are... It is awful

People wondering why women would vote for Trump etc, lots of women are anti-abortion! These are people who literally cannot see any difference between a foetus and a live baby

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 11:41:15

I suspect another reason there are only 3 clinics is due to aggressive picketing - in many places there is a rota of people who ensure the staff and patients are aggressively confronted at all times.

ChardonnaysPrettySister Wed 15-May-19 11:42:44

Why did people vote Tory?

Are the Tories anti abortion then?

WitchfinderGeneralHarrumph Wed 15-May-19 11:46:56

Help me out here: why does Trump want Roe v Wade overturned? So that abortion becomes illegal nationwide?? WTF?

resisterpersister Wed 15-May-19 11:48:11

Yes bloody Americans! EXCEPT - oh, look there's a part of the UK that has neither abortion OR marriage equality, against the wishes of the majority of the people who live there.

Are women being threatened with life imprisonment for an abortion in NI? No, I didn't think so.

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 11:49:33

It’s hardly ‘pedantic’ to object to Ireland as being described as part of the UK. The 8th amendment of the Irish constitution was repealed due to work done by an army of activists in Ireland. It had sweet F.A to do with the UK.

The UK now needs to get its own house in order and deliver healthcare to the women of NI.

But yes, the war on women's bodies in America is utterly chilling. Not one fuck do these evangelicals give about children once they’re born. This is just pure and unadulterated misogyny, keeping women impoverished and powerless. Republican politicians are dogged in their antipathy against abortion and universal healthcare, dogged in their devotion to guns. Whereas in reality the wider American public is generally speaking pro access to abortion, pro universal healthcare, and pro gun control. How can Americans stand this?

BarbarianMum Wed 15-May-19 11:50:04

Don't give me that Hopey, you have options. Personally I wouldnt vote for any party that refused women the right to terminate a pregnancy, that's how important it is to me.

Nesssie Wed 15-May-19 11:51:09

AgileLass British Isles includes the Channel Islands, which are not included in 'Great Britain' or 'United Kingdom'. Abortion is legal in the Channel Islands (up to 12 weeks or 24 weeks depending on which Island)

And Mainland is obviously the 'main land' of England/Wales/Scotland rather than any of the smaller Islands.

Gth1234 Wed 15-May-19 11:54:42

I will only say this once.

In my opinion, a baby's "right" to life out-rates a woman's "right" to kill the baby.

But it's not about "rights". It's about "laws". I am happy to comply with the law irrespective of my personal views. There are lots of laws that I think are wrong, but we can't pick and choose which laws we want to obey. Laws are the price we pay for living in a "safe" society,

But that's just my opinion.

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 11:54:52

Help me out here: why does Trump want Roe v Wade overturned?

Trump isn’t actually an anti-abortion ideologue, I'm sure he's paid for plenty of abortions in his time. As with everything Trump does he does it if he thinks it will benefit him personally. And acting as though he’s anti-choice plays well to his right wing base. It’s all about the votes.

Bugsymalonemumof2 Wed 15-May-19 11:54:59

The abortion laws being passed are abhorrent. In Ohio they are discussing pursuing women who have had miscarriages and if found to have caused it they will also be prosecuted.

Yes we need to change NI laws but at least we aren't actively going backwards

AutumnCrow Wed 15-May-19 11:55:31

And a lot of anti-abortion zealots are very keen on the death penalty. Sanctity of life my arse.

Bugsymalonemumof2 Wed 15-May-19 11:55:59

And I personally have had an abortion. Im not ashamed of it, it was the best choice for that pregnancy and it was my choice to make, no one elses.

Gth1234 Wed 15-May-19 11:56:18

And this isn't a "religious" view, although I think it is a "moral" view.

higgyhog Wed 15-May-19 11:56:49

Another whose first thought was "Gilead".

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 11:57:30

'British Isles' is a geo-political term that is not used in Ireland, for obvious reasons I'd have thought.

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 11:59:20

But it's not about "rights". It's about "laws". I am happy to comply with the law irrespective of my personal views. There are lots of laws that I think are wrong, but we can't pick and choose which laws we want to obey. Laws are the price we pay for living in a "safe" society,

Nothing 'safe' about women bleeding to death after undergoing a backstreet abortion.

TheWernethWife Wed 15-May-19 11:59:26

Quintella totally agree with your comments.

Not one fuck do these evangelicals give about children once they’re born. This is just pure and unadulterated misogyny, keeping women impoverished and powerless.

AutumnCrow Wed 15-May-19 11:59:28

Even the fairly socially conservative Isle of Man (not UK, it's a crown dependency in Irish Sea) has legalised abortion.

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 11:59:36

Whereas in reality the wider American public is generally speaking pro access to abortion, pro universal healthcare, and pro gun control. How can Americans stand this?

Is this actually true? My impression (I don't profess to be an expert but have worked for several US companies and been to the US a lot) is that there are massive regional variations, but on the whole everyone I've met has been much more socially conservative.

badlydrawnperson Wed 15-May-19 12:00:17

I certainly found very very few people in favour of universal healthcare - they think the NHS is crappy.

Gth1234 Wed 15-May-19 12:00:36

@autumncrow

Sanctity of life and death penalty are not mutually exclusive. It's to do with society.

In order to live in a "safe" society people need to comply with the rules. If some peoples' behaviour makes it inappropriate for them to be part of that society any longer, then remove them.

Gth1234 Wed 15-May-19 12:02:19

@lisalocketlostherpocket

Can They? Can a NI woman just rock up in the republic and ask for an abortion. I doubt it somehow.

Dottierichardson Wed 15-May-19 12:02:32

If it follows the law being brought in in Georgia there’ll be no option to go out of state – or travel like women from N.Ireland have - as women will still be prosecuted when they return; anyone who helps them leave the state can also be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder. In addition ANY miscarriage (suspected miscarriage) would be open to a criminal investigation – don’t see that being exploited by abusive partners!. And as the ban is on abortion from six weeks on – i.e. not since detected but actual conception so a period during which most women would not know they were pregnant effectively a total ban. Details here:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/09/georgia-effective-abortion-ban-cruelty-anti-choice-movement

In Alabama currently a man is suing his 16 year old girlfriend because she had an abortion and so is the 6-week-old embryo; proposed changes in law could impact on IVF, if embryos being produced are not implanted or fail to implant, as well as forms of emergency and other types of contraception

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/08/the-terrifying-case-of-a-six-week-embryo-suing-an-abortion-clinic

It’s quite chilling also bothers me that the groups bringing about/lobbying for these laws are often operating in the UK, or linked to the ones that harass women outside British abortion clinics, the BPAS are campaigning against these groups as part of their BACK-OFF campaign btw if anyone wants to support them

back-off.org/

DarlingNikita Wed 15-May-19 12:03:18

If some peoples' behaviour makes it inappropriate for them to be part of that society any longer, then remove them.

Here we go.

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 12:08:20

I certainly found very very few people in favour of universal healthcare - they think the NHS is crappy.

There will always be Americans who vote against their own interests but public support for Medicare has actually soared.

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 12:09:02

In order to live in a "safe" society people need to comply with the rules. If some peoples' behaviour makes it inappropriate for them to be part of that society any longer, then remove them.

Remove them how?

Dottierichardson Wed 15-May-19 12:09:27

In my opinion, a baby's "right" to life out-rates a woman's "right" to kill the baby.
If you support the thinking behind this law and you think an embryo is a baby – we’re talking embryos not even foetus stage not that I make a distinction as I support the right to choose - then you are basically saying any woman who used a coil or a contraceptive pill that stopped a fertilised egg implanting or had IVF knowing some embryos would not survive and/or be used is a murderer. Which is bollocks.

DGRossetti Wed 15-May-19 12:11:26

Why did people vote Tory?
Are the Tories anti abortion then?

I was picking up on another theme in this thread ....

EnjoyItAll Wed 15-May-19 12:13:01

Why am I not surprised the people who passed this and think they have a right to determine the law on this are ALL male?!

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 12:14:05

Yes all God fearin' white men who know what's best for women...

Spinnaret Wed 15-May-19 12:16:41

In my opinion, a baby's "right" to life out-rates a woman's "right" to kill the baby.

But it isn't a baby. It's a foetus, that cannot survive without the uterus in which it resides.

How can it ever be right to force a woman to carry to term when she has become pregnant through rape or incest?

By all means, do it yourself, but to force it on every woman?

It sickens me that that there are women who think this way. Bad enough that men do, but women? Utterly baffling.

Nanny0gg Wed 15-May-19 12:18:49

If you support the thinking behind this law and you think an embryo is a baby – we’re talking embryos not even foetus stage not that I make a distinction as I support the right to choose - then you are basically saying any woman who used a coil or a contraceptive pill that stopped a fertilised egg implanting or had IVF knowing some embryos would not survive and/or be used is a murderer. Which is bollocks.

And I assume that the MAP is a no-no too then.

Usernumbers1234 Wed 15-May-19 12:21:40

When this all broke in a couple of other states a few months back I thought it was all scaremongering and that the threat of Roe being overturned was minuscule.

I’m not so sure now

FriarTuck Wed 15-May-19 12:23:53

Particularly nice that they didn't pass the exemption for rape or incest
This ^^. That's just horrific. Like the BBC article pointed out, you could have a young girl raped by a sibling or parent and she's stuck having to have the child. How can anyone think that's reasonable? If they had to ban abortion then they could have at least allowed that exemption.

DGRossetti Wed 15-May-19 12:25:31

Maybe a better question than "What is going on ?" might be "What can be done ?"

Boycott holidays in Mobile (sad to say no great loss ...) ?
Burn our Lynyrd Skynyrd albums ? (and I guess they'd be opposing this anyway).
Refuse to watch Forrest Gump ever again ?
Put pressure on US companies that have facilities in Alabama (Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook) ??????

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 12:30:23

Hopefully with regards to Georgia enough TV and film production companies will boycott the state to the extent that they really feel it. That won't make the (corrupt) governor very popular. I'm not sure what industries Alabama depends on.

SerendipityJane Wed 15-May-19 12:31:46

I'm not sure what industries Alabama depends on.

Racism and incest ?

outvoid Wed 15-May-19 12:33:21

The sperm of a rapist is worth more than the rights of a rape victim

^ this

We need to bring NI in line with 21st century values as well.

Quintella Wed 15-May-19 12:33:39

Ha.

Well this certainly isn't going to do anything to change people's impression of Alabama being a byword for backward.

S1naidSucks Wed 15-May-19 12:42:05

Welcome to progressive NI, where you can’t get married to someone of the same sex or get an abortion, but if you’re a trans that wants to call yourself the opposite sex, then access all areas. I’m sooo glad women have equality in NI, if you’re the ‘right’ kind of woman of course. hmm

ethelfleda Wed 15-May-19 12:42:10

If you don’t agree with abortion then don’t get one. Hasn’t anyone told them this??

Lifeisabeach09 Wed 15-May-19 12:44:51

Let's hope it goes to the Supreme Court, is deemed unconstitutional and is overturned (Heartbeat Bill, North Dakota). But, yes, agree with PPs in that Brits are one to talk (N Ireland.)

And religion is, without doubt, the major factor. It's a Bible belt state!

SchadenfreudePersonified Wed 15-May-19 12:45:58

And what happens to these babies when they are born?

Perhaps to a mother who can't or won't (because the circumstances of their conception/birth are too horrible) look after them?

Are the "pro-lifers' or the government there to provide loving, safe homes for them until the are 18? And a supportive family substitute afterwards? Are they hell as like!

Life is only sacred when it's in the womb, it seems - once born those mothers and babies are often stuck on welfare, with no future ahead of them except one of poverty and deprivation.

Even if only in practical terms (these children are more likely to be drawn into violent street crime and/or prostituion), you'd think that politicians would think of the cost to society.

And the cost to the world - overpopulation and its attendant demands on the earth's resources is killing this planet.

But the cost to individual women and girls is heartbreaking and brutal.

isabellerossignol Wed 15-May-19 12:46:12

Don't give me that Hopey, you have options. Personally I wouldnt vote for any party that refused women the right to terminate a pregnancy, that's how important it is to me

In my constituency in N Ireland at the last general election there was only one pro choice candidate. And that was Sinn Fein, who for fairly obvious reasons many people cannot bring themselves to vote for. And in some constituencies they may not even field a candidate, so you might have not one single person to vote for who is pro choice.

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