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to think that JKRowling has borrowed more than she should from Lord of the Rings?

(25 Posts)
JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:21:52

Can we have a game of spotting J. K. Rowlings unconscious borrowings from Lord of the Rings?
To start off: The Dark Lord (Sauron/Voldemort) has been defeated in the backstory. He is 'less than spirit' and can only return if he can get the Ring/Philosopher's stone. A short person (Harry/Frodo), aided by a wizard (Gandalf/Dumbledore) must prevent him. The short person's scar aches when the Dark Forces are near -- for example the Ring Wraiths/Dementors which take all happy thoughts from you.
Frodo/Harry and his pals encounter a willow tree which thrashes its roots about in an attempt to kill them.
They also encounter a treacherous double agent -- Wormtongue/Wormtail.
Anyone spot any more?
(Originally posted this in another thread but no one noticed it).

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 10:23:59

what about The Worstr Witch

was reading atht to dd2 last night - a witches boarding school where they get given cats when they start (some schools give owls) the book says

written in the 70s

PinkMartini Tue 17-Jul-07 10:26:15

God I loved the worst witch.
My headmistress looked just like miss hardbroom.

Pruners Tue 17-Jul-07 10:26:48

Message withdrawn

FillydoraTonks Tue 17-Jul-07 10:26:53


i think this is standard fantasy fare though

worst witch is good, actually the tone of the books does remind me of hp.

tortoiseSHELL Tue 17-Jul-07 10:27:07

Oh I loved the Worst Witch!

The spiders - Shelob in LOTR, and the Spider in the Chamber of Sectrets.

Wormtail is a bit like Gollum as well - a creature not killed by Harry/Frodo, and therefore indebted in some way, and will play a critical role in the endgame of the story.

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:27:23

Yes, and also the Narnia stories -- Centaurs are proud there and you aren't supposed to ride them without a great deal of courtesy. Ditto the Centaurs in Order of the Phoenix.

tortoiseSHELL Tue 17-Jul-07 10:28:10

Oh, Gandalf/Dumbledore dying and therefore increasing their power - perhaps Dumbledore will have handed power to someone?

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:30:17

The whomping willow seemed the worts rip-off. Even the same species of tree FGS. I don't think she can have realised what she had done.

tortoiseSHELL Tue 17-Jul-07 10:31:18

Black riders are similar to Dementors as well - the feelings of blackness and despair when they're near.

tortoiseSHELL Tue 17-Jul-07 10:32:34

Snape - he could turn out to be a Saruman character, but I rather think he will end up on the good side - in fact I think he may save the day and end up headmaster. Or die, helping Harry.

Leati Tue 17-Jul-07 10:32:46

I think ideas are bound to be recycled to some extent. I have read books where I am sitting there thinking, have I read this before? I think we can find similarities like this in a lot of books if we tried.

pigleto Tue 17-Jul-07 10:33:57

even aslan gets killed to become stronger

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:34:18

Agree, tortoiseshell. It's not that I am an anorak or anything: it's just that reading all these stories to DCs at around the same time I could not believe how much she had reproduced from LOTR.
I think that she must have read it so young that it passed into the compost heap of her brain and got shovelled onto Potter without her noticing.

suzycreamcheese Tue 17-Jul-07 10:34:21

OP...i havent read harry potter but always assumed it was poor man / child's lord of the rings

oh, am getting huge cultural fatigue of it all now...its everywhere..they are bringing out stamps / bloomsbury fight on radio...its just like the beatles for me now..a great big yawn..

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:37:05

And, Pigleto, when Aslan comes back to life, having failed to be killed by dark side, he says to the Witch: 'You have forgotten that there is an older magic [or somesuch], which is exactly what Dumbledore says about Voldemort forgetting the older magic of love <vomit emoticon> that perotects harry from the Voldie killling curse

tortoiseSHELL Tue 17-Jul-07 10:37:16

Oh oh oh, and also the very idea of Horcruxes - the idea of putting some of his power into objects, such as a ring - when the rings of power were made, Sauron poured his power into them, which is why he needed the one ring back.

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:39:46

And Dobbie, though admittedly a goodie, talks in the same way as gollum: always using the third person instead of first and second.

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:49:31

Agree, suzy, is poor man's Lord of Rings. Was quite good at first, but am v v tired of it now.

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 10:55:30

One of the Harry Potter books has, in an early chapter, the sentence: "A silence fell downstairs."
Thumpety-thump, crash.

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:12:40

OrmIrian Tue 17-Jul-07 11:18:05

A lot of that is very true now I think about it. But I suppose there are elements of folk tales that are common to all fantasy stories - Tolkein borrowed (or celebrated) a lot of British and Norse mythology and culture in LOTR. So I suppose it was public property.

I prefer LOTR. So does DS#1 thankfully.

rebelmum1 Tue 17-Jul-07 11:26:46

and terry pratchet

JonRonseal Tue 17-Jul-07 12:25:40

I've not read pratchet. What has she drawn from that, rebelmum?

rebelmum1 Wed 18-Jul-07 11:25:16

He writes the disc world series and it's all about witches and wizards. They have wizard school too. It's very witty and parodies everyday life.

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