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To be so fucking confused

(73 Posts)
Shockedandsickened Sun 21-Apr-19 20:40:29

Have a 7mo DD with DP. We live in his home country. I am feeling massively homesick for the UK, this relationship isn't going well, and I just want to go home and start a new life. But it would mean DD could only see her dad a couple times a year for long stretches of a couple months (long haul) and this is breaking my heart. He is such a wonderful father and we do about 50 50 shared care. I wanted my DD to have a wonderful father she saw every day and was close to, which she does. But if I left I would be taking that away from her. I am just so homesick for the UK and also know it would give my daughter better opportunities. I am so confused.

BabyDarlingDollfaceHoney Sun 21-Apr-19 20:43:49

No chance he'd relocate to the UK with you?

bluebell34567 Sun 21-Apr-19 20:45:55

can you take a holiday in UK?

BottleOfJameson Sun 21-Apr-19 20:47:32

How different is the country you're in at the moment? Is it somewhere like the US or Canada or somewhere very different?

couchparsnip Sun 21-Apr-19 20:53:59

If the relationship isn't going well then it's better to go now. Don't stay in a bad relationship for your DD, she won't thank you for giving her that environment to grow up in. As your DD gets older she can Skype and phone her father. It's not what you envisaged but will be better for everyone in the long run.

julensaor Sun 21-Apr-19 21:02:28

How long have you been there OP?

ImOnlyHumanAfterall Sun 21-Apr-19 21:05:51

How long have you lived there? Have you only felt like this since DD was born? Is the relationship no going well purely because of your homesickness, or are there other issues?

Shockedandsickened Sun 21-Apr-19 22:57:34

He won't relocate and I'm not sure how easy it would be legally etc.

It's a very different country and culture to the UK. I've lived here 7 years.

There are other issues in the relationship. He's very selfish and insensitive. Lovely father though which is why I'm so torn.

Easterbunnynearlyhere Sun 21-Apr-19 22:58:44

See a solicitor. He may may able to stop you removing your dc from the country...

julensaor Sun 21-Apr-19 23:01:59

Gosh I thought maybe this was newly relocated and having the baby just made you feel more isolated. Can you talk to him? Can you spell it all out, if he is a lovely father, is he a decent enough person that you just don't want to be with anymore? Or are the issues more sensitive that?

AlunWynsKnee Sun 21-Apr-19 23:02:54

You could well find you can't take your dc out of the country without his permission and certainly not to live.

UserName31456789 Sun 21-Apr-19 23:07:25

Sounds difficult. Considering it's very different culturally and you've already been there 7 years I do think it's unlikely you're going to suddenly settle in. I think you should move back to the UK and do your best to facilitate a relationship with DC's dad from there. He also has the choice to move to the UK so you're not forcing him to live in a different country to his child. I would definitely seek legal advice before you do anything though.

UserName31456789 Sun 21-Apr-19 23:08:36

I also don't think you can guarantee that a selfish man will continue to be a great father. Parenting a 7 month old baby is very different to an older child who has a mind of their own. I would see a solicitor ASAP.

jacks11 Sun 21-Apr-19 23:10:46

I agree OP should not stay in a relationship that is making her unhappy- assuming there is no desire/possibility to work on improving the relationship on both sides- and she shouldn’t stay in a relationship for the sake of her daughter.

However, there is a difference between ending a relationship but remaining near enough for effective co-parenting and moving to a different country a long haul flight away, taking their child with her. That is a pretty devastating thing to do to a loving, involved parent. Sometimes it has to be done, but shouldn’t be done lightly. And it is possible that her partner could prevent OP removing their child from the country.

OP I think you should end the relationship if you are deeply unhappy and don’t think there is anything worth working on or if your DP won’t agree to work on the relationship. Moving away is slightly trickier and I think you’d need some legal advice as to whether you could do so without his agreement. Then at least you know where you stand from a legal perspective if your DP didn’t agree.

jacks11 Sun 21-Apr-19 23:14:13

To be clear- I don’t mean get legal advice as to whether you can leave the country to return to the UK, but you may need his permission to remove your DD without his consent, should he refuse to give it.

Crunchymum Sun 21-Apr-19 23:16:08

What country OP? What passport does baby have?

Without knowing it's hard to advise.

Antonin Sun 21-Apr-19 23:41:12

Best course of action may be to come to UK on holiday,,perhaps to show you DD to your family. Don’t say anything to your DH re your dissatisfaction or he may get suspicious. Whilst here get legal advice, plus custody of DD. If you take DD out of your current country of residence without his consent with intention of not returning your legal position will be more difficult. If you come on holiday with his approval and while here decide for good reason not to return then your position will be better. International law can be very complicated.
Good luck

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis Sun 21-Apr-19 23:48:03

If he got the majority of time and you saw her sporadically would that be ok with you?

Butchyrestingface Sun 21-Apr-19 23:51:00

Best course of action may be to come to UK on holiday,,perhaps to show you DD to your family. Don’t say anything to your DH re your dissatisfaction or he may get suspicious. Whilst here get legal advice, plus custody of DD

Just trying to imagine the howls of outrage at a bloke advising his mate to do this...

AlunWynsKnee Sun 21-Apr-19 23:51:31

If you come on holiday with his approval and while here decide for good reason not to return then your position will be better. I don't think that's true in any way whatsoever if the Hague Convention applies. The child has never lived in the UK so is ordinarily resident where they live now and the OP would put herself in breach of the law by removing the child permanently. Getting back into the country they live in now might be affected if she breaks the law which would be shit if her child lives there.

wellhelloyou Mon 22-Apr-19 00:29:56

Sorry you're going through this. We emigrated and I felt lost hopeless and at the depths of despair for a year. We decided to return to the UK although things have gotten better. How long have you been living in the new country?

How long have you been in your DP's home country? Is it English speaking? Can you go out and get around as easily as you did before? Helps massively to go out and speak to others. Especially other expats - loads of people in the same boat. If you also go onto forums (think one is called Expats British) and ask for help people know what you're going through and can offer advice.

Just be aware, if you're living in Australia or another country covered by the Hague Convention (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention_on_the_Civil_Aspects_of_International_Child_Abduction) it won't be your choice as to whether you go back with your daughter. I don't wish to scare you with this but I always think it's good to have full knowledge when making a big decision.

I know how hard this can be, wish you the best.

wellhelloyou Mon 22-Apr-19 00:30:52

Sorry, the website is British Expats not Expats British britishexpats.com/forum/

Shockedandsickened Mon 22-Apr-19 00:54:02

Thank you for all your replies. I didn't mean to drip feed but he says he wants me to do what makes me happy and if that means going back to the UK with our DD then it's fine, as long as we return for long stretches at a time, which is doable as I work remotely. I just don't know if that's good for DD or fair.

Shockedandsickened Mon 22-Apr-19 00:56:15

well thanks for the forum recommendation. I suppose I could give it a last full-on try so id be able to say I've given the country enough of a chance! I do have friends but one friend is in a very abusive relationship that drags me down in all honesty, and the others are quite far away from when I lived in another part of the country.

pinotgrigio Mon 22-Apr-19 01:01:47

You need to be very, very careful. I was in a similar position to you and after seeing a family lawyer was told that if I wanted to return to the UK, our DD would most likely be ordered to remain with her father as she was ordinarily resident. As he held my visa at the time he didn't know quite how much of a hold he had over me (I couldn't move out without my visa being nullified). I'd been trying to get out of the relationship for years (and still am).

However, all of this will depend on the country you are living in. I would get some good legal advice ASAP. Your marital status may also play a part in your options - in the country I'm in, DP has equal parental status, while in the UK he doesn't. It's very complex.

pinotgrigio Mon 22-Apr-19 01:03:40

Ah cross-posts - good that he's prepared to return to the UK with you. I would still make sure you understand your legal position with regard to your DD and if your DP wants to take her back to his home country in case you do decide to separate.

AlunWynsKnee Mon 22-Apr-19 01:03:58

Where will she go to school? You can ping to and fro for the next 3 years but once she starts school it's going to mean limited time abroad. Is he OK with that?
You also need to establish her country of residence as a baseline in case he decides to ignore that limited availability.

Chocmallows Mon 22-Apr-19 01:04:01

I think you should come back and arrange long visits there initially. You said it's better for you and DD and he would support this.

wellhelloyou Mon 22-Apr-19 01:20:46

It's such a difficult thing to go through. My heart goes to you.

Keep communicating to your DH (and surround yourself with positive people if you can). I know your DH has said he's ok with this but does he really think you WILL do this? He's ok with you taking your daughter away from the country for long periods of time? If he's serious, you need to get this in writing from him. Could he accompany you on perhaps the first trip? I strongly advise from doing anything 'undercover' or sneaky. Be open and continue to communicate with your husband, it's his child also.

You're a good mum to, despite feeling so low, to be thinking of your daughter's and husband's relationship. I know there were moments for me where I could think of nothing but how could I 'get out of here'. Luckily the moments passed quickly.

I have heard stories (two first hand) of one parent taking a child overseas (for a holiday) and being stopped at the airport to check if the other parent had given approval (not verbal obviously). This was in Australia - not sure about other countries obviously.

Hope everything works out for you as a family.

wellhelloyou Mon 22-Apr-19 01:21:55

I mean I strongly advise AGAINST doing anything undercover or sneaky (as in take your daughter on holiday to UK but then not return). I'm sure you're level headed enough to know this and you didn't have intentions anyway.

Italiangreyhound Mon 22-Apr-19 01:31:30

Shockedandsickened "I didn't mean to drip feed but he says he wants me to do what makes me happy and if that means going back to the UK with our DD then it's fine, as long as we return for long stretches at a time, which is doable as I work remotely. I just don't know if that's good for DD or fair."

To me, you have a choice, stay in the country but living away from your partner and be aware that his 'allowing' you to move back home with your child may change at some point in the future or stay in an unhappy relationship because you somehow think this is good for your child (you did not suggest it so I am assuming this is not an option, which is good), or move 'home' to your country and determine to make it work at home and make contact for your partner to see his child.

To me it is a total no-brainer. If the relationship is over, get out, get home and then work the rest out from there.

Italiangreyhound Mon 22-Apr-19 01:34:53

"If the relationship is over, get out, get home and then work the rest out from there." I mean legally, and all above board, while he is on board. I agree with others, do not do anything sneaky. thanks

You lived there for a long while, were you with him for a while? If so, presumably you felt that things would go well. They have not.

You could try and make your relationship work, get counselling (as long as he is not abusive), you may be suffering from homesickness but why now after so long, do you have the baby blues a little bit?

If you dp is a good parent he will put the effort in to make it work, and you can too. But to stay a long time and risk not being able to leave with your child seems to me very reckless indeed. You are clearly not a selfish person, you are thinking of him, and your dd. He sounds kind and he is thinking of you but you say he is selfish so maybe you are now realising that whatever it is you do not want to be tied to him and his home country for life.

If you stay, and your dd stays, and grows up there and maybe gets married there, you will be tied to that place for life. If that is not what you want, think about this seriously now.

thanks

wellhelloyou Mon 22-Apr-19 01:41:53

I do agree with you Italian however it's quite a bit more complicated than "To me it is a total no-brainer. If the relationship is over, get out, get home and then work the rest out from there."

A court could order the child be returned. That would be worse on the child than having two parents agree on the way forward and having the legal decision made beforehand.

wellhelloyou Mon 22-Apr-19 01:43:57

this

If you stay, and your dd stays, and grows up there and maybe gets married there, you will be tied to that place for life. If that is not what you want, think about this seriously now.

On the forum that I read (that I mentioned before) I've seen people go through never feeling they fit into their new country but then their kids grow up, marry and start families in that country and they feel trapped. Obviously you don't live your life worrying about this and kids can move around anywhere in the world they wish to anyway (you did after all) but it is definitely something to think about.

Jaimemai Mon 22-Apr-19 01:45:09

I can give you the point of view from the child's perspective. My mother did this, in our case, against our father's wishes. I missed my father desperately. I remember the missing and pain being like a physical ache. It hurt me so badly. It really is an awful pain to go through. It is like a piece of your heart is in another country. Ask yor child what she wants. It is inportant to do that

Jaimemai Mon 22-Apr-19 01:49:13

I remember specifically one big impact from it. My heart was so broken at leaving my father, that I never got close to any person again : friends or boyfriends, for a long long time. I could not bear to feel the pain again. It really is a heartbreak.

Italiangreyhound Mon 22-Apr-19 01:53:43

wellhelloyou "A court could order the child be returned. That would be worse on the child than having two parents agree on the way forward and having the legal decision made beforehand."

Sorry, if I was not clear. What I mean is - if he is willing to allow this now, then I would take it. I would work with him to make it work. I would get the legal situation sorted and make it work. I would do nothing sneaky or underhand at all.

However, I wold not assume he will always feel like this and the longer the OP stays and the child stays there is a risk he will change his min.

Jaimemai I am really sorry this happened to you. "Ask yor child what she wants. It is inportant to do that" The child is 7 months old, that isn't really an option. Plus the OP i snot doing against the dads wishes and has said she wants to facilitate the relationship.

Italiangreyhound Mon 22-Apr-19 01:54:35

mind

Hollyhobbi Mon 22-Apr-19 01:54:44

Op's child is 7 months old not 7 years Jaimemai!

wellhelloyou Mon 22-Apr-19 01:55:50

ah got you @Italiangreyhound. We're saying the same thing :-)

I thought when you said "get out, get home and then work the rest out from there" you meant just leave (almost a midnight flit!) and work it out from a different country. Got it now

Hollyhobbi Mon 22-Apr-19 01:57:08

Crossed post re the baby's age.

Someoneonlyyouknow Mon 22-Apr-19 01:58:34

I'm not sure if your DH is saying that the whole family could return to the UK or that you and your DD could return? Either way he would want her (and you) to return to his country regularly. This might be a way forward if you think it is purely homesickness or PND which makes you feel the marriage is over. If you are sure this would only be delaying the inevitable break up it might be better to split now. If you can separate amicably that would be best for all of you.

Italiangreyhound Mon 22-Apr-19 02:03:11

Absolutely, I do not mean just flit off and leave. No way. Work with your partner and work things out the best way you can for the future of the relationship between daughter and dad. I am very sorry if I was not clear at first.

My first ever big relationships were with guys from abroad while abroad and I did think a lot about this with the guy i fell in love with. I had found out about the country's laws etc. In the end I married a man from my own country and it was never an issue but I do know that I would not move abroad now with dh, no matter how much I love him, because I'm so conscious about the issues around this.

Maybe that is wy I come across as very strident! I also know a person whose sister married a man from the USA and is now stuck there with the kids and unable to leave.

I'm not disputing these laws, I am just saying it's complicated! If the OP's dh is willing to make this work, I'd be grasping it with both hands. In the nicest possible way. thanks

7salmonswimming Mon 22-Apr-19 02:07:38

How are you going to manage long stints in the country you’re in right now, once your DC starts school?

Don’t you think long stints in another country will be destabilizing for a young child, pre-teen, teen?

Bottom line: what do you want more? To go to the UK for your sake, or for your DD to grow up with a present father?

I know it’s not helpful, but many many women have been where you are. They wait those 18 years.

Italiangreyhound Mon 22-Apr-19 02:18:38

7salmonswimming it's not 18 years though is it. It might be for life. The baby is 7 months old. The OP has to think of what is best for them all.

iwunderwhy Mon 22-Apr-19 04:23:23

Do listen to italiangreyhound ..he might be willing now for you to leave now but could change his mind later. If you were my BF I'd tell you to get him to say that in writing (more then once) so you never get accused later of abducting the baby.Depending on which country you're in your future custody could depend on proving child's move was agreed. Consult a lawyer as people here are telling you. They might advise agreed paperwork stating he's ok for you to take child that you both sign. This is a serious potential minefield ! wits about you !!

DungballInADress Mon 22-Apr-19 04:43:30

I am sorry you're in this situation OP.

If you are able to go back for long periods then it could work but it sounds like you and your DP are expecting different things. It sounds like you are wanting to return to the UK because you feel your relationship as a couple is at an end, and he thinks its because you're homesick. Would things remain so amicable if you were to separate? If you were to xone back to the UK, spending long periods of time abroad would probably be OK for the first 2/3 years, but once your DD gets to around school age it may become more complicated.

Additionally, do check out the laws regarding one parent taking a child out of a country, particularly if you are not married to your DD's Father and she has his surname. We had DC's prior to getting married, they had DH's surname & I took them on a very short trip abroad to stay with my aunt. I got stopped in border security because they wanted to establish what relationship I was to the children and whether I had permission to remove them from the country. It was pretty scary at the time TBH.

I think an initial trip back to the UK could help you make a firm decision OP, but I really hope you are able to find a solution that works for all involved.

Mummyoflittledragon Mon 22-Apr-19 05:38:42

I would take what your dh is offering and go to the U.K. for an extended trip for starters.

Where do you live? Is the country part of The Hague convention? In the case of a split, who would get legal custody? Eg Dubai, that would be your dh. Dubai is not part of The Hague convention. Once on U.K. soil no way I’d take them back as you could lose custody the moment you return there and probably be deported / imprisoned / worse if he can “prove” you tried to abduct your dc. Other example, Switzerland. Part of The Hague convention. You can’t just register your child in the U.K. and not return.

mathanxiety Mon 22-Apr-19 05:50:11

I am one of those women stuck until youngest turns 18.

Even at this point with 18 just around the corner for my youngest, I have decisions to make. Can I just up and leave my children in their twenties/late teens? We don't all live close together but still...
Can I start my life over yet again in a country that has changed a lot since I left it?
What about the relationship with my children? What about grandchildren? I have none right now but that could change..
Then there is my mum, getting older, back home..

Things can look simple when you are somewhat at a distance from them. When they get a little closer the details become apparent and more significant. Time brings wrinkles.

Otoh...
Your DD is 7 months old and to be brutally blunt, will not miss her father. I suspect your feelings on her missing a father are related to your own feelings of missing some important part of your own life.

Your DD will adapt to a relationship with her father at long distance, with periods of closeness. He would presumably make an effort to get to the UK for short spells too apart from her school holidays (these are a few years off). Technology can allow them to be in contact.

............
You seem very sad and unable to see much good in any situation you envisage.

Not meaning to sound patronising, but could your intense homesickness and unhappiness with your relationship be down to depression or pnd?

How often are you able to get back to the UK for visits?
Do you have family who can visit you where you are?
Friends where you are, or friends in the UK who could visit?

Why did you leave the UK in the first place, and when?

mathanxiety Mon 22-Apr-19 05:53:13

Don't be tempted to do anything underhand.

Consult a lawyer and do not do anything just on the basis of a conversation with your H.

Everything wrt travel with the baby needs to be in writing.

missperegrinespeculiar Mon 22-Apr-19 06:59:58

oh OP, I feel for you! I have numerous friends in this situation and it is terrible to be away from your country and your family when your relationship breaks down.

The one thing I can reassure you about is if you decide to leave in-between the two countries (long stretches in both) it can work very well, we do it with our kids (mostly for work reasons, but we also have immediate family in two different continents) spending about half and half of our time in (mainly) two places.

We have done this even through school years (homeschooling for half the year). The kids are not at all upset by it, in fact, they love it, and have a strong identification with both of our main residences (they are also perfectly bilingual and learning another two languages). It is tiring for us though!

However, we have done this with the full support of our kids' school and not all schools would support it, and we are worried about what might happen when the kids are at high school, in that, I don't think we will still be able to do it then.

We also own houses in both countries, so moving is easier and kids have toys, clothes, bikes etc. in both and have the stability of returning to familiar places, and we have also family and friends in both.

Done this way, for the kids it is their normal, not destabilising in any sense.

This said, I don't know that I would take my child away from a loving father, it is one of her fundamental relationships, also, you say he is selfish, and yet he is willing to allow you to go back? it's a huge sacrifice for him! But maybe if your DD would have better opportunities here, and you would be much happier and you can facilitate a close relationship maybe it is worth it overall?

On the other hand, I am gobsmacked at people advising you to just take your DD, even without the father's consent, what a horrible thing to do to a parent! Not to mention illegal!

Soontobe60 Mon 22-Apr-19 07:15:36

Whatever you decide OP, it is never going to be perfect. You have lived in another country perfectly well for 7 years, but now you have a child you want to come home. I totally get that. However, you made your choice knowing what it is like to live where you do. Your child deserves to have a relationship with her father. In the country of her birth.
If you choose to separate from her father, try staying where you are for a while to see if it's doable. I would say that as you are the one who wants to leave him, if you feel you have to come back to the UK, then you also have to leave your DD with her father and be the one who goes back for long holidays to see her.
The only honest decision is for both parents to live where their child lives so she has regular access every week to both of them.

SnowsInWater Mon 22-Apr-19 07:24:28

If he is agreeable to your leaving now with your child tbh I would do it. Usually I am a firm believer in "a child needs both parents" but I am in Australia and have seen so many unhappy women stuck here with no family support when their relationship breaks down as if a child is born here with an Australian dad there is no way they are leaving without dad's consent until they are 18.

Jaimemai Mon 22-Apr-19 09:52:54

I understand that you would rather be at home. But I really think that alot of mothers can be selfish and think that they are the primary parent of the child, when they are not. Both father and mother are equally important. You have got to put the child first. And the child needs both parents. Someone said that at 7 months she will not miss her dad. That is not true. I was two when I left my Dad to go to another country and I missed him all the time, and my grandparents on that side , terribly. I would like to also add that my father ended up committing suicide because of what my mother did. You cant just think of yourseld. You have to think of your child and that you are taking her away not just from her father but also from her grandparents. Good luck

mathanxiety Tue 23-Apr-19 05:36:59

Soontobe60
Your child deserves to have a relationship with her father...
Agree.

...In the country of her birth.
Disagree.
There is nothing essential about living in the country of her birth.
......
There is a huge difference between a baby of 7 months and a toddler of 2, Jaimemai.

What happened to you and to your dad is very sad, in fact tragic.

But the OP is talking about maintaining contact by traveling with her DD to see the father for long stretches, and technology can facilitate long distance relationships much better than it used to.

The father has also apparently said the OP should do what is right for her including leaving with the baby; he is ok with agreeing to this.
So the comparison with your family's circumstances is not very clear.

Jaimemai Tue 23-Apr-19 11:26:29

I don't think that there is a huge month between a baby of seven months and a toddler of two. Next year she will be the same age that I was. My mother did maintain some contact with my father. We did see him for some stretches of time in his country. It was still INCREDIBLY hard for all of us. We all wanted to see each other every week. I cant explain the constant yearning and missing. Try to imagine your parent living in another country that you love very much and you cannot see when you want. It is an INCREDIBLE pain. Both me and my brother also did not forgive our mother for a very long time. OP if you work remotely - you can split your time equally between your country and your husband's country. Your child deserves to see both parents EQUALLY. And I would say this to all mothers out there: if tou take your child away from their father , it causes tremendous pain for many people: the child, the father, the grandparents, their uncles and aunts on that side. Please think it through properly

Motoko Tue 23-Apr-19 11:48:08

This is why I wouldn't marry and/or have children with someone from another country.

With more and more people from different countries getting together, this situation is only going to increase, with all the damage it causes.

ahtellthee Tue 23-Apr-19 11:56:47

Helpful @Motoko

And it can happen with couples of same nationality who might move abroad for whatever reason, long or short term.

I always travel with a letter of consent from DH when travelling alone with DC, as it helps if questioned.

OP, sorry you are going through this. I think that it depends on where you as the parent providing the child will have the lost support. Most often this does mean the UK and most of my friends in situations similar to yours have ended up going back. Good luck

Jaimemai Tue 23-Apr-19 17:06:01

I also spent the first 18 years of my life missing my home country. Missing the country that I was born in. If she is born there - she will feel a strong draw to it. I never liked my mother's country. Hopefully you take all of these answers into account. Best of luck

Italiangreyhound Tue 23-Apr-19 19:59:52

Soontobe60 are you honesty suggesting a mother leave her child in a foreign country because it is the country of her dad's birth? I'd imagine that will me as her up a lot more than leasing less of her dad.

Jaimemai it is very tragic what happened to your dad. I think both parents are important but the reality is most dads so not do an equal share of childcare.

It sounds like your situation waa very hard and I am sorry. But people do not base where they love on grandparents, uncles and aunts. I had very little relationship with extended family (who all lived close) and it was not an issue.

Italiangreyhound Tue 23-Apr-19 20:00:31

mess her up...

Jaimemai Wed 24-Apr-19 11:43:25

I just see way too many mothers making things hard for fathers. And thinking that they are the primary carer. You are not. Mothers and fathers have equal rights. There are many fathers groups out there talking about this issue, about the cruelty of not being allowed to see their children. It cannot go on like this. I used to have a relationship with a man abroad and If I had had a child with him I would not consider taking her away, unless we split the time up totally equally. As the Op works remotely she can easily have the child for six months of the year, and he can have the child for six months. If you are ever in doubt about what you should do, put yourself in the other parent's shoes, and ask "how would you feel if your precious child lived in a different country for ten months a year" ( whatever time you are thinking of).

outpinked Wed 24-Apr-19 11:51:53

I think jaime is massively projecting here. My parents separated when I was a baby and it had absolutely no lasting effect on me. I still had a fantastic childhood and great relationships with both parents. Many families have this dynamic nowadays and the parents co-parent well. Also, Mother’s generally are the primary parent...

A child does need both parents but they also need their parents to be happy and feel stable. You’re currently very unhappy and I don’t see this getting any better, not when you have tried your best to settle for seven years. This will eventually project onto your DD, she will feel your misery in some way. It is not selfish to do what makes you feel fulfilled and happy just because you have a child, staying together for the children never ever works out.

You need to consider how much more difficult it will be to leave when your DD is in school. Now is definitely the easiest time to leave if you’re going to do it.

FredFlinstoneMadeOfBones Wed 24-Apr-19 12:58:00

@Jaimemai

I think it would be massively disruptive for a child to live with one parent in one country for 6 months and another parent in another country for 6 months it just wouldn't work long term. Of course the father has rights but it can't be assumed that because a child was born in a particular country that both mother and father will remain in that country for ever. Especially after a break up.

Italiangreyhound Thu 25-Apr-19 17:20:47

Jaimemai

"I just see way too many mothers making things hard for fathers. And thinking that they are the primary carer. You are not."

My expeeience of life has been that mums often bend over backwards for children, cook and clean and care for them and ferry them around. Not all mums, but many. Yes dads can do a lot for their kids but in my experience the vast bulk of childcare is still done by mums.

So, mums, in my experience, are often the primary care givers.

"There are many fathers groups out there talking about this issue, about the cruelty of not being allowed to see their children." Clearly it is very sad when good parents cannot see their children."

But we do not need to imagine how the other parent on this case feels. He is eilling for her to go. She's asking advice and the background is that her partner/ex seems ok for her to go back to her country.

mathanxiety Thu 25-Apr-19 19:18:36

jaimemai
There is a year and a half between a baby of 7 months and a 2 year old toddler. There is astronomical growth and cognitive development in that year and a half. It is the one window, in truth, where a baby really will not be aware at all of one parent not being there every day. To state that there is no difference between a baby of 7 months and a toddler is daft.

Equal rights does not = equal time or effort spent caring for a child. You have conflated two completely different things. The vast majority of the time it is a mother who takes the long mat leave, goes on the mommy track at work, adapts a career to the demands of caring for children, goes part time, works nights, or opts in the first place for a career where caring for children is more possible.

Children cannot be in different homes for half the year. School has to be fitted in somewhere. Activities, friendships, community relationships, and a sense of belonging somewhere are all important. At some point the right of the child herself to a sense of continuity in her own life becomes the primary focus and parents should be able to respect that, not stand on their rights.

I just see way too many mothers making things hard for fathers.
I see the opposite. I did the opposite. Just by dint of my children being born in a certain country, the decision on where to live the next 30 years of my life was made for me, regardless of how my marriage deteriorated or how difficult divorce might make my circumstances, how isolating a life with an abusive partner might be, how bad for the children the whole situation was.

The law makes it very easy for one partner to simply fold his arms and stand on his rights to EOW contact if it all goes tits up, and the fallout for the spouse and children can be immense.

The idea that mothers make it hard for fathers is piffle.

There are many fathers groups out there talking about this issue, about the cruelty of not being allowed to see their children.
Sad to see you have been taken in by groups of mostly misogynistic men, many of whom are animated by a desire to punish their former partners and are not above using their children to this end. Many of them are divorced because they are abusive and continue the abuse by proxy or directly because the mothers are obliged by visitation agreements to have contact with them. Women have gone so far as to opt to abort pregnancies so they can avoid being tied to abusive men for the 18 years it takes to shake them off.

Mummyshark2019 Thu 25-Apr-19 19:41:10

I agree with outpinked. Definitely the best time to move at this age. And staying together for the child never works out.

Hawkinsfirefly99 Thu 25-Apr-19 20:08:34

Google Sally Faulkner. She lost her two children to her Lebanese husband. They split up snd he took them on a 'holiday' to Lebanon and never returned them. She hasn't seen them in 4 years. It's a heart breaking story but very very real when you're dealing with countries that differ in laws and culture to our own.

Scarcelyburnt Thu 25-Apr-19 20:17:11

So because the country is not like the US or Canada or Australia it means the country is culturally very different? Is that a code word for not being predominantly white. Also just because the country in question is different from the UK, it is assumed that the OP is better off returning to the UK rather than seeking to make a life inp that country so that her daughter can have easy access to her father?

Scarcelyburnt Thu 25-Apr-19 20:47:42

I also don't see how the UK is culturally the same or similar to the US unless you mean predominantly white. The USA is massive and the culture and laws are less like the UK than say one of the UK's former colonies.

Scarcelyburnt Thu 25-Apr-19 20:48:50

By that I mean recent, small colonies.

HowardSpring Thu 25-Apr-19 21:00:44

No assumptions were made Scarcely - the OP herself said it is longhaul, culturally very different and that her DD would have better opportunities in the UK than there.

Justanotherlurker Thu 25-Apr-19 21:24:24

Why are people trying to pick apart cultural similarities under the cloak of some perceived dog whistle.

It shows more about the person trying to frame the argument whilst ignoring history and geopolitics whilst they themselves are un-ironically using the birthed in America IDPOL stack of presuming its because of skin colour.

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