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AIBU?

To get cross when people with no catering experience think they know more than those who work in the industry?

58 replies

ExtraPineappleExtraHam · 20/04/2019 09:38

Someone was just talking about the food waste in the NHS. I said that the system in our hospital was that patient menu choices are chosen almost a week in advance. This is so the kitchen can order in the exact amount of each portion. My hospital is long stay so the likelihood of the patient still being there in a week is about 95%. If they happen to get discharged or go into another department then yes, that food is wasted but it's a very small amount. Staff usually eat it.
A woman with no experience in the field said to me 'that's a stupid system, they should order it the day before.' So that would be a better system would it, ordering loads of everything and then having too much of one thing and not enough of another, and then having just 4 hours to prepare EVERYTHING!
I've had this so many times, people who don't work in catering telling me how restaurants/ cafes should be run. The best was my ex- manager telling me that she would run a busy cafe using all vintage china (good luck putting those through an industrial dishwasher!)
Is it because it's 'low skilled' that people think they could make a better job at running it than the actual staff? I would never go into a care home and start telling the staff how to do their jobs, or start lecturing an engineer about how to design more effective aircraft.
I just can't fathom how people look at a huge corporation like Subway and think 'oh I could do a better job!'

OP posts:
FlowersInMotion · 20/04/2019 09:39

I think that the same is true of pretty much all industries,

FlowersInMotion · 20/04/2019 09:40

And professions.

NewAccount270219 · 20/04/2019 09:41

It is irritating but people do this for everything. I'm a historian and when people find that out they start telling me very basic facts in my field and then telling me what I should be researching. It's a bit baffling, but just a nod and smile situation, not something to get really fussed about.

NewAccount270219 · 20/04/2019 09:43

I would never go into a care home and start telling the staff how to do their jobs, or start lecturing an engineer about how to design more effective aircraft.

You might not, but lots of people do do it with care homes. And people don't tell an engineer how to design an aircraft but they do start telling them about the one popular science article they read once about how aircraft are designed.

Brilliantidiot · 20/04/2019 09:55

Yes! I have a saying "Everyone is an expert" found it more prevalent in pub/bars - most people who use one even semi regularly think they can run one better than the person currently running it.
I've then worked for people who did pt bar at uni and with that have bought a pub, as staff we went with the pub. New owner didn't know how change a keg, nor that we needed gas to get the beer from the cellar to the pumps! And as for line cleaning....... What's that?
That guy had stood at the bar for a few years before hand announcing that "It can't be that hard, I've got bar experience"
He promoted a colleague to manager in 6 months and stepped out. Didn't realise it wasn't all having a laugh over a few pints with the regulars but actual hard graft.

ExtraPineappleExtraHam · 20/04/2019 09:57

@NewAccount270219 that must be so frustrating. Your job sounds fascinating though. I thought that your many years of education would stop people doubting you!

OP posts:
RUOKHUN · 20/04/2019 10:02

I think you are being slightly unreasonable as every trust is different. In ours you order everyday and there is still a huge amount of waste... we as staff do eat leftovers BUT we are not supposed you and therefore it depends on whether you have a domestic who will let you eat the leftovers...

LaurieMarlow · 20/04/2019 10:02

The less you know about something the more straightforward it seems. It’s when you actually understand the details that you see the complexities.

What you describe is true of most jobs tbh. Everyone’s an expert until they have to do it.

NameChangeNugget · 20/04/2019 10:04

A woman with no experience in the field said to me 'that's a stupid system, they should order it the day before

She sounds like one of those annoying tossers who criticises everything. Ignore her

ExtraPineappleExtraHam · 20/04/2019 10:04

@Brilliantidiot you get me! It's so frustrating. My fave is when someone said 'it would be so much cuter if we hand-wrote all the sandwich labels.' Her face when I explained that if someone with an allergy sued because they couldn't read sesame written in 'cute' cursive script then we'd be shut down. These hipsters have a lot to answer for.

OP posts:
redcarbluecar · 20/04/2019 10:05

Although that’s definitely annoying, your post did make me laugh. I think that any job with a public interface will attract this kind of ‘I know how it should be done’ comment from outsiders. Fortunately I’m a teacher and we are utterly immune from uninformed public criticism, which is a relief. Smile

ExtraPineappleExtraHam · 20/04/2019 10:06

@redcarbluecar Grin

OP posts:
JudyDenchsBloomers · 20/04/2019 10:12

Just chiming in to say I think it works across all workplaces to an extent. I work in trade development and get told "I know there's a market for my product in your country". Er no, no you don't, that's why you're talking to me.

It's very irritating as you can probably tell!

NewAccount270219 · 20/04/2019 10:20

Your job sounds fascinating though. I thought that your many years of education would stop people doubting you!

It definitely, definitely does not! I think it's particularly bad in history because everyone knows something and people have a VEEERY wide idea of what's relevant (people often start telling me about how interesting it is that their house is Victorian. I work mostly on the fifteenth century). People seem to think that their half-remembered project they did in year 9 is exactly the same as my PhD. The scientists get it less, though they do, as I say, get people recounting the one article they've read on cancer research/physics/volcanology at them, and a lot of suggestions that their research is 'a waste of money' if it isn't directly, immediately applicable (ie if they don't work in drug development).

It is even worse for women than men, though, and also depending on how 'proper' people think your research field is. I work on social and cultural history and people are often very open that this is not 'proper' history and say things like 'you should look into the wars of the roses, that's really interesting'. Thanks?

Youngandfree · 20/04/2019 10:21

Yes it’s the same with every job/profession!! I’m a teacher and EVERYONE knows how to be a teacher and how to fix the education system 🙄

sirmione16 · 20/04/2019 10:24

Yep. Worked in restaurant management for years, and somehow there's always a customer who thinks I'm lying or points out an empty (reserved) table to me when I say we're full, or tries to tell me how long their particular meal would take them to cook - never mind the rest of my customers then? - or exclaim they've been sat for 10 minutes and noones come to them when the sign clearly says please wait to be seated. Or they want to sit in an area of the restaurant that's clearly empty and closed down for the night. Or when they order a huge meal with 10 minutes till close then sit there drinking wine when they've watched me say goodnight to ALL my members of staff and I'm only there with one other due to them being sat there. Or when I ask medium or well for their burger and I get a lecture on how burgers can't be cooked medium when we're permitted to do this.

So many irks.

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 20/04/2019 10:28

I've literally just seen this discussion on a Facebook zero waste group. It's the same in our hospital, lots of waste but the catering team try to be a efficient as possible. A big example is the homemade daily soup is without doubt related to whatever the main meal was the day before so that the leftover veg can be used.

Brilliantidiot · 20/04/2019 10:33

@ExtraPineappleExtraHam

Yup, it came to a head when he realised he couldn't afford to pay the staff to come in and receive deliveries, and line clean and would have to get up and do it himself, and be taught by someone who knew what they were doing. We had tech services out almost weekly for things like gas running out, not releasing the float after a keg change and the first time he cleaned the lines he managed to freeze the water in the lines by not turning the chillers off first. That cost a days business. It's not rocket science to run a bar practically, I get that, but you do need to know what you're doing to get the simplest things right.
And don't get me started on the licensing experts, who don't know the majority of the law regarding alcohol and quote interesting things like

"But you have to serve anyone by law who wants it as long as they're over 18 and it's before 11"

Um, no mate I don't actually, I can refuse to serve you because I don't like the look of your coat if I choose, there's no laws saying who I must serve, only who I mustn't. Obviously to refuse to serve someone because you don't like their coat isn't great business sense!

AnnaMagnani · 20/04/2019 10:40

It's true of every industry. Have a look at the thread about 'Why can't I get a GP appointment?' First few posts are united in that it's because we have too many people, mostly immigrants.

Er, no - it's because of multiple factors - an ageing population, obesity crisis, multiple developments in medicine which have made community medicine far more complicated than it was in the 80s so people have multiple diseases and meds which all need monitoring, lack of recruitment of GPs, mass retirements of GPs, movement of care from hospitals to GP - I could go on and on.

But 'too many people, mostly immigrants' is a nice simple message.

I just assume now that I know nothing about other industries given how little people know about mine.

Sharkirasharkira · 20/04/2019 10:40

Yanbu at all OP! I've worked for a few new businesses - cafes/restaurants etc that have really struggled or gone under because the person in charge thought it would be easy but actually had no bloody clue and refused to listen to those who DID know better, with the benefit of years of experience.

Case in point - brand new restaurant. Downstairs kitchen. No proper calling system for wait staff, just a normal domestic phone which you could barely hear on either end. Fancy wooden boards that cost £16 each, had to be oiled regularly to stop them from cracking and couldn't be washed properly. No hot light to keep things warm. A normal domestic 4 'burner' induction hob and pans - 2 of which didn't work as they were too small for the burners. A pizza oven but nothing long enough to get the ones at the back out. I could go on, the mind boggles!

Also the cafe who's owners didn't cost anything, just set the prices at what they thought people would like to pay and then panicked when they were losing money Hmm

SileneOliveira · 20/04/2019 10:43

Totally agree, I have been volunteering for 5 years in a charity shop and everyone's got an opinion on how things should be done, even though they've never set foot behind the sorting room door.

jasmine1971 · 20/04/2019 10:43

This is true of all industries. I get suggestions by parents on how to manage classes of 34 (despite 25 years teaching experience and absolutely no discipline issues in my classes as the students all do as I've told them). They also tell me how to mark.

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SilentSister · 20/04/2019 10:55

The best was my ex- manager telling me that she would run a busy cafe using all vintage china (good luck putting those through an industrial dishwasher!)

As you have highlighted this comment as "the best" I thought I would just make the small comment that several very busy local cafe's use all vintage china. I don't know how they wash it, but they do use it.

LadyRannaldini · 20/04/2019 10:56

To get cross when people with no catering experience think they know more than those who work in the industry?

Now you know how teachers feel, just because you went to school and bred a child doesn't make you an expert on education!

NewAccount270219 · 20/04/2019 11:05

Another good example of how it's not just low skilled things is how many people on mumsnet think that they are better at spotting problems like confounding variables and issues of correlation vs causation than actual data scientists. So many people airily declaring that all research on breastfeeding, for instance, is pointless because apparently the scientists were too stupid to spot a flaw in the research that a random mumsnetter can.

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