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To rip up SATS results without looking at them

(120 Posts)
Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 19:17:36

School have said that DD might not pass her SATS as she is below the expected level. She’s not that confident anyway & I don’t think knowing that she had ‘failed’ them would help her.
Aibu to not even look at the results - to rip them up without looking at them so none of us know them. I kind of feel like I want to protect her & build up her confidence in other ways.
Apparently secondary school re test anyway so do i need to know them?

Shortandsweet96 Mon 08-Apr-19 19:21:17

Read them.

You cant protect your DD from failure.
How will she ever learn?

Not passing might be a motivation for her to try extra hard for the re-sit and her GSCE's.

She wont be the only one who didnt pass... if she didnt!

elessar Mon 08-Apr-19 19:22:23

I think that is a terrible idea. You can't protect her from poor results.

What if she has the same issue at secondary? For her GCSEs? A Levels?

Hiding results from her won't help her at all.

What you need to do is focus on how you can support her and help her deal with this and focus your energy on ensuring she has the tools and support to succeed in the future.

Flyingpie Mon 08-Apr-19 19:22:49

You don't need to know them. School will pass them on to secondary school though. They will do their own testing as well, SATs are not the most useful indicator of what a child can do.
You could pull her out of school that week. Not necessarily advising it. But it's an option.

PurpleDaisies Mon 08-Apr-19 19:23:09

If she’s sitting them, you should look at the results.

Don’t think of them as pass or fail. They’ll tell you (and her) where she is

Gizlotsmum Mon 08-Apr-19 19:23:20

Won't everyone be talking about them? So she will be expecting them? Do they not get sent to the school? Maybe use it as a lesson in how to handle 'failure' and use it as motivation

SolitudeAtAltitude Mon 08-Apr-19 19:23:48

Read them but don't rip them up

That is too big a response

I told my DS who "failed" them that really they test the school, not the child. (Which is true)

He is doing much better in Secondary now, so it really did not mean much

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 19:25:11

@flyingpie I will send her in.

Everyone tells me though that SATS aren’t about the kids- they are to measure the school- so if that’s the case, why should I tell her?

Obviously GCSEs etc are different but if SATS are just about school performance, why should i tell her?

supermum85 Mon 08-Apr-19 19:25:18

your childs target gcse grades are generated from her ks2 sats. she will made awre of her targets at secondary.
im a secondary maths teacher, i think you need to be very aware of her gaps its likely she will need intervention to support her in ks3 if she is exceptionally weak

what do you mean by wont pass? sats scores are a number from 80 to 120.

ineedaholidaynow Mon 08-Apr-19 19:25:48

The results don't use the word fail, so your DD doesn't need to know she 'failed'

Darkbaptism Mon 08-Apr-19 19:26:35

Your DD will have spent a lot of time working for her results, even if she ‘fails’ she should be proud of what she has achieved. Also if the school reports are formatted like the ones at my DDs secondary school the results will be on there for the whole of KS3!

mummmy2017 Mon 08-Apr-19 19:28:20

Find some old results, then you can show her she got a better score, so you can tell her she is getting better

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 19:28:48

They did ‘mock’ SATS a few weeks ago and the teacher told her she hadn’t met the pass mark

AJPTaylor Mon 08-Apr-19 19:28:57

Dd3 has always been below expected levels throughout primary. We have focused on effort and progress.
She is now in year 6 and tracking just below expected. At various points I would have given my right arm for her to be within touching distance. At the start of year 4 She was at year 2 levels.
We have spoken with her about sats and what they are.if she doesn't hit level 4 She will not have failed.

HarrietSchulenberg Mon 08-Apr-19 19:29:03

Ds3 didn't achieve the required grades in Maths and English Grammar. Just made it through in Reading. His brothers flew through a few years before.
Secondary school used the results for initial (very rough) setting in English and Maths and everything else is taught in tutor groups or other mixed ability. English and Maths did resetting tests at Christmas and he moved up to middle sets from the bottom.
It really doesn't matter much in the long term so shouldn't be treated as a drama.

Thadeus Mon 08-Apr-19 19:31:01

Our school told the children their results and they told us.

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 19:33:11

@thadeus they don’t do that at our school. Parents pick the results up & choose if to tell the kids. However the school have told her she ‘failed’ her mock SATS

RubberTreePlant Mon 08-Apr-19 19:33:42

Why not?

They were supposed to be a test of the school, not the pupil. The whole SATs thing is out of control.

mummmy2017 Mon 08-Apr-19 19:34:47

Tell your DD this ...
Your teacher only has a small amount of time each day for each lesson, and the one you find harder to do, may not be something she is good at teaching.
When you move up to your new school, your class and teachers will be right how for you learn, which means you will improve much fast than you are now, so the grades you get right now are not a real indication of how much you know.

I am saying this because my child gained 2 grades in Maths in 3 months.

Tinyteatime Mon 08-Apr-19 19:35:37

You can withdraw them from SATS. Most teachers I know say they wish more parents would. They aren’t if any benefit to individual children. How old is she?

Tinyteatime Mon 08-Apr-19 19:36:24

*of

MsJudgemental Mon 08-Apr-19 19:36:44

What supermum says. Although DD will know that 100 is a pass.

What a lot of parents don't realise is that poor attainment in maths at KS2 can result in being stuck in bottom sets for maths, which means only studying foundation maths, which means their future options are severly limited as they will not be able to do anything in science, computing or technology post-16.

This may seem like a long way off, but it really isn't. I would advise you to see if you can get a specialist tutor asap. Yes, the SATs are partly about assessing the school's performance, but if your child does poorly in May they are not likely to somehow magically 'get it' in September.

alwaysreadthelabel Mon 08-Apr-19 19:36:52

Think of it this way. Her school bow have an incentive to get her to pass as it's their results that it counts towards. Her secondary school will love her as if she is a late developer her progress 8 score will be brilliant for them. SATS should be banned, the pressure is unbelievable, but I don't know what could replace them.

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 19:37:17

@tiny she’s 11 and it’s all affecting her self esteem a LOT. I’m pretty sick of it all to be honest- I’d homeschool if I could. I find some elements of the current education system toxic and crap

ineedaholidaynow Mon 08-Apr-19 19:37:21

That was wrong of the teacher OP. How far off is she? I assume her school will be doing all that they can to get her up to speed if she is marginally off at the moment.

ineedaholidaynow Mon 08-Apr-19 19:39:29

Don't think you can withdraw from SATS.

From the school perspective if your DD didn't sit them she would be shown as a fail anyway

MichonnesBBF Mon 08-Apr-19 19:39:53

The year 2 SATS I never looked at they were binned immediately no questions asked as the kids didn't really know they had actually done them.

Year 6 however they know from the beginning SATS is what they are working towards throughout the whole year, so for that reason yes I would share the outcomes as they have worked hard and should be acknowledged (I say this as a parent who's child is also likely to fail)

Then discuss all the exiting things we are going to do in the holidays and what expectations they have for secondary school.

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 19:41:39

@msjudgemental is that true? I failed my gcse maths the first time & could only do foundation, got a C at second attempt- did A’ levels & then got a 2:1 degree in psychology....

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 19:53:03

Do you have the scores for her 'mock' SATs?

If so, then simply use them as a comparison to her actual SATs results 'Look, you got 5 more in Maths than in your last test because you worked really hard at that, well done'.

Show her that it is all about progress and hard work, not about absolute levels, and show that you value that progress, rather than meeting some particular standard. If what she comes out of Y6 with is a view that she can improve how she does by working hard, and that you value that hard work, then that's a really good thing to take into her secondary education.

There are some myths around SATs - the one that 'they only measure the school' is a particularly prevalent one. Like it or not, your child's individual progress in secondary - in all subjects - is measured from the baseline of her SATs. Because of this, schools set GCSE targets based on SATs, in order to get a good progress score. Yes, they do often also test at the start of Y7, but progress is ALWAYS measured from SATs. If you adopt the same approach - that progress from this point is what matters, not absolute results - then your child, rather than 'always being measured against some absolute standard they may not be able to achieve' can succeed against a sensible measure. And that's something you should celebrate, not rip up.

FermatsTheorem Mon 08-Apr-19 19:58:15

I hate the argument "you can't tell your child SATs are a pile of crap, because then they'll take the same attitude into GCSEs and A levels."

Of course they won't. Because SATs are there to score the school and (SPAG test I'm looking at you) quite a lot of what they test will never, ever be used again.

I also hate the way they're used in secondary - one of our local secondaries said on their open day "we use them to stream on entry - so for instance, the weakest children don't get a foreign language, though if they go up a group, they can always start late." I stood there with my jaw on the floor thinking "so you're going to take the children who are struggling most and put an extra hurdle in their way?" It's as if the move to comprehensive schools, and the move away from setting children's life future in stone aged 11, had never happened.

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 20:02:31

@fermats in our local secondary, they don’t stream at all in year 7 and test again so I think that means they don’t use SATS in that way

Lifeover Mon 08-Apr-19 20:04:15

This is what concerns me, I was a late bloomer academically, struggled through primary and got top marks in the school at a level.

I personally would rip up the papers if she’s worried, keep an eye on her at secondary and fight them to push her as she progresses rather than accept a lazy attitude of not expecting and change in ability from 11-16.

winbinin Mon 08-Apr-19 20:05:54

As other people have said it’s not a matter of pass or fail. It’s a record of the level she is working at. Secondary schools automatically get access to the KS results of all new students but IME (academic database manager for a secondary school) take them with a pinch of salt.

Why is she not likely to reach the expected level? If it is because she is not academically clever or good at a particular subject it wouldn’t be a bad thing for her to be in a lower set for that subject. Better to have her confidence boosted by doing well in a lower set than for her to struggle in a higher set maybe.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:05:59

Fermats, I would say that the streaming you describe is rare - DC's comp sets (not streams) for Maths after a while in Y7, but all other subjects are mixed ability for the first year. A few children with significant SEN don't take up a second language in Y8 - with that time being used for intensive interventions etc - but from entry on SATs alone is rare IME

ChoccieEClaire Mon 08-Apr-19 20:07:06

My DD did SATS last year and her school told them and the rest of the class what everyone got.
Year 6 was hell for my DD, so much stress associated with the SATS, she really felt the pressure, she was emotional all the time and just seemed lost.
Yr7 has been completely different and she is like a different child.
Her high school reports, online system etc all list the SATS results as they use them as a marker for the level that they begin yr7. You are best off telling her the results as it us unlikely that you can keep her from seeing them, however if you emphasis their irrelevance then she will not be worried that she has 'failed

caringdenise009 Mon 08-Apr-19 20:10:33

SATS are only important for schools and parents who are too bought into a system that they don't understand what is important about education. TEAR THEM UP. No-one in Wales does them.

ChoccieEClaire Mon 08-Apr-19 20:15:05

@fermats
They do that at my daughter's school - she got 99 in her English SATS so is doing extra literacy classes in replacement of a modern language.

DobbinsVeil Mon 08-Apr-19 20:16:14

Is this the first time you're hearing she's struggling academically, or is there an ongoing difficulty, (for want of a better term)?

DS1 has SN EHCP etc, he didn't pass maths, but did pass the English exams, failed both the teacher assessed ones for Science and writing. He's now in Yr8, maths is actually going o.k., English really isn't! He does get a lot of extra help but the skills needed for English really are a bit beyond him tbh, which is a shame as he can produce some amazing work. But it is what it is. Science also going well.

My main concern would be her confidence and self-esteem. Do you know what the pastoral care is like at the secondary she's going to?

MC68 Mon 08-Apr-19 20:16:28

My sons year 6 teacher has told the class what figure (100) is the ‘pass mark’ so he’s well aware that he’s all ready ‘failing/a failure’ as he’s yet to reach that mark. It’s heart breaking that he’s walking around actually saying he’ll fail & is a failure this morning!
I previously suggested that it might be better for me to disclose his results to him than his teacher as it may be less traumatic for him (he’s in SEN for maths & Autistic). However after seeing him troubled this morning & knowing how anxious & stressed he’s been for months about this I’ve emailed the school to ask if I decided to how would I formally go about not making him sit them as I read today they’re not as non compulsory as I thought & would need the Head Teachers permission & she would make the final decision for this even if I am able to request this, or even if it’s possible in his school to do this.

winbinin Mon 08-Apr-19 20:16:46

As other people have said it’s not a matter of pass or fail. It’s a record of the level she is working at. Secondary schools automatically get access to the KS results of all new students but IME (academic database manager for a secondary school) take them with a pinch of salt.

Why is she not likely to reach the expected level? If it is because she is not academically clever or good at a particular subject it wouldn’t be a bad thing for her to be in a lower set for that subject. Better to have her confidence boosted by doing well in a lower set than for her to struggle in a higher set maybe.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:18:29

Caring,

I intensely dislike the way SATs distort the end of primary education.

However, by the time they are taken, the damage is done. You might as well klook at the results and use them to praise her progress.

If this was a discussion about whether a child should be moved at the end of Y5 into a school that doesn't do SATs and has a wholly different curriculum - in fact, just the same curriculum as for Y1-5 would be fantastic - then I'd be in wholehearted support. However, once the preparation for SATs has ruined the year, both withdrawing the child from the tests and showing that you don't value what she has been made to work so hard for are pointless - the damage is done.

(I would also say that the welsh education system is not, perhaps, a huge advertisement for the benefits of no SATs, long warnings before school inspections etc. IIRC, it underperforms quite significantly compared with Scotland and England)

MitziK Mon 08-Apr-19 20:18:44

If you rip them up and don't tell her, she'll 'know' that they weren't good enough.

If you rip them up and don't tell her, she'll think she failed even if she actually did really well in them.

Once they get to senior school, they'll see the levels they are on, anyway. So she'll know one way or another, how she compares to other kids her age.

Kolo Mon 08-Apr-19 20:22:07

I don’t think there’s any significant benefit in telling your child their SATs result. The results WILL be transferred to secondary school and that school MAY set for some subjects based on the SATs score, but it’s not until GCSEs that results have any meaningful impact on an individual and their future life chances.

I was a secondary maths teacher for nearly 2 decades. SATs results were used as a guide to set for maths in year 7, and were definitely taken with a pinch of salt. There would usually be lots of re-shuffling in the first term based on our own assessments (CATs, teacher assessment etc) because SATs results aren’t necessarily indicative of a child’s ability. They tend to reflect SATs prep and a huge focus in year 6 on maths, eng, sci, half of which is forgotten between the SATs exam in May and starting school in September.

I have a year 5 child myself, who is already getting stressed about SATs next year. I’ve told him I couldn’t care less what score he gets, as long as he works hard in school. I’ve told him that SATs are only there so the gvt have something to measure a school’s performance on (which is true, IMO. Lots of teachers, schools and education professionals disagree with the tests, even though the system is set up so that they have everything resting on these results). It makes me very cross to realise that my child will be spending pretty much all of next year being prepped for a test that is not for his benefit.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:24:06

MC98,

Look at the ARA:

Section 6 is the bit you want to see whether your head should be entering your son or not. Basically, if he can answer the easiest questions on the paper, the guidelines say he should take it - but with suitable access arrangements to cater for his SEN.

AllPizzasGreatAndSmall Mon 08-Apr-19 20:24:40

That was wrong of the teacher OP.
I agree the teacher should not have said she failed, because it isn't a pass/fail exam, but the children should be given their marks and told what they would have needed to score to show they are working at the expected level.

WinnieTheW0rm Mon 08-Apr-19 20:27:25

Right now I think I'd be more concerned about why the teacher anticipates a very low mark.

monty09 Mon 08-Apr-19 20:27:27

My son didnt pass his SATS! He was upset but since been at high school he's come on leaps and bounds at parents evening they asked me why he didn't pass as he's way above the level that the says put him at. You should read them it doesn't mean you have to tell your daughter.

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 20:28:52

DD got 99 - so not far off on the scaled score in the maths paper - not sure about English as they only got told the maths result

BlueMerchant Mon 08-Apr-19 20:29:01

I think you should look at them. You may be pleasantly surprised and even a little bit of an improvement from her mock results can be used to bolster her confidence whether she 'passes' or not.
She really needs to face it front on. Hiding from the results isn't going to prepare her for her future as she will have many more tests she has to face.

edwinbear Mon 08-Apr-19 20:29:06

What a lot of parents don't realise is that poor attainment in maths at KS2 can result in being stuck in bottom sets for maths, which means only studying foundation maths

My DC won’t sit SATS as they are at a private school. So what happens if they then go on to a state secondary? They won’t have any KS2 SATS results to stream them or base predicted GCSE’s on. So they must make use of alternative assessments somehow.

Kolo Mon 08-Apr-19 20:30:36

The only thing I’d be looking at is any analysis of performance. I’d be looking for anything that could be helpful to future progress. Being told at 11 that you’ve failed and that you’re rubbish at maths (or anything) is not helpful. But being told, for example, that you need to practice x tables, or that you need more work on ‘time’, that’s something you could help your child with over summer.

I used to spend my life trying to make sure children who struggled at maths thought they were amazing at it, because then they’d be more likely to engage and enjoy it and actually make progress.

pouraglasshalffull Mon 08-Apr-19 20:30:36

Your DD SATs results follow her all the way through high school.

Flight path grades are predicted based on these results, and when they get to GCSE's this is how their predicted results are formed.

They are even taken into account for A Levels with some adjustments for GCSE results. You need to know the level shes working at, whether you like it or not.

There is a strong correlation between SATS grades and GCSE grades. There's a government website where you can see this correlation subject by subject, and for every single subject offered at GCSE, there is a close relationship between SATS results and GCSE results. It is more important than you realise to read them

pouraglasshalffull Mon 08-Apr-19 20:32:27

Even if DD secondary school re-tests before setting groups, the correlation between SATS and GCSE is still undeniable

Girlicorne Mon 08-Apr-19 20:32:58

I feel for you OP, SATs are horrific. They have ruined year 6 for my daughter as this is all they ve done. They weren't even allowed to do a Christmas show this year as 'they are under too much pressure with SATs' (teacher's words). I have told DD from the start they are completely meaningless, our secondaries don't set/stream based on them. The stress levels amongst some of her friends should never be experienced by 10/11 year olds. The whole thing needs abolishing, there was nothing like that when I left primary and others of my generation so why are they even necessary? I would either pull her out or rip them up!

Witchend Mon 08-Apr-19 20:35:38

I think ripping them up would be more likely to give the impression that you are upset with her results. Let's face it, you wouldn't be talking about ripping them up if she was hovering between expected and exceeding, would you?

And there's more than a passing chance that she'll find out at school, which could be far more upsetting for her.

Much better to look at the results and say "Well done, you've worked really hard to get XX marks. I'm proud of you. Now let's go for an ice cream to celebrate."

edwinbear Mon 08-Apr-19 20:36:07

pouraglass that simply can’t be correct. As I said, my DC won’t sit SATS as they are at private school. If they go to a state secondary are you suggesting the teachers won’t be able to predict grades for them?

YouSayPotatoesISayVodka Mon 08-Apr-19 20:38:19

I hate the SATs. I hate the pressure my daughter and her classmates feel under and wish less of a fuss was made about them. As the mother of a child who goes to bed crying some nights worrying about them (despite me and other people in her life trying hard to calm her down) I don’t blame you one bit for wishing you could protect your daughter from the bloody things.

I’ve told my daughter that as long as she walks out of the test after it’s done knowing that she did her best and worked hard that’s all that matters, not the mark she gets. Sod what the school says.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:38:25

Edwin,

That depends somewhat on the secondary.

Your child's results won't count in their progress results (used for league tables etc), though they will of course count in the 'headline' results.

There will therefore be slightly less pressure on the school to get their predictions 'absolutely right', and ultimately, when push comes to shove with scarce resources in increasingly cash-strapped schools, very slightly less emphasis on getting them over critical grade boundaries, especially if the school is under pressure in terms of league tables.

IME the approach to targets given to children with no SATs results is slightly variable - the data manager who posted on here earlier might be able to help. Some may be given 'middle of the road' targets, some similar targets to those seen as 'similar' in everyday performance in class.

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 20:39:03

All this glide pathway through school makes me annoyed too. I was lazy & did badly in school and was expected to fail. I didn’t really mature until I was about 15, started working & passed them all A-C. Then did Alevels & got a good degree. Some kids don’t really ‘get’ school until they mature s bit & I hope that might be the case for my DD. Writing kids off at 11 on the basis of some bloody narrow tests annoys me a lot

Kolo Mon 08-Apr-19 20:40:55

But, Pouraglass, actual flight paths are not linear. Predictions based on SATs (you’re talking about FFT data?) are only really accurate at cohort level. Even on an individual level, schools can pick different targets - aspirational, for example.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:41:08

Certainly a child coming from a private school who was 'underperforming relative to their end of year 6 performance' in secondary wouldn't be under scrutiny in the same way as a similar child with SATs results.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:43:21

Flight paths at individual level are b******s.

However, the fact remains that a school will tend to put more effort in to push a child whose target is a 7 due to good SATS, but is currently working at a 5, than a child who is predicted a 5 and is getting a 5.

YouSayPotatoesISayVodka Mon 08-Apr-19 20:43:58

Writing kids off at 11 on the basis of some bloody narrow tests annoys me a lot

Bloody snap. It’s not right to use a test they do at 11 as a marker for how good their gcse results will be when they’re 16.

edwinbear Mon 08-Apr-19 20:44:00

Thanks cantkeepawayforever I’ve never quite worked out what happens in that scenario. Presumably similar with children new to the country.

WhenZogateSuperworm Mon 08-Apr-19 20:45:08

100 shouldn’t be thought of as a “pass” mark. It’s a standardised score so 100 is exactly average. 99 is therefore a tiny tiny bit below average which is fine! It’s not a “fail”!

pouraglasshalffull Mon 08-Apr-19 20:45:15

There are exceptions of course where there is no data available, but secondary schools have contact with primary schools wherever possible to determine the acceptable flight path grades.

And of course, flight path grades are not always spot on, there are exceptions to that too, that can be reasons people under/over perform.

However, (I wish I could remember the bloody link to the website) there is a strong correlation between sats results and gcse results. I spent an entire day at the start of the school year having a meeting with all the other school staff about this. There are exceptions to everything of course, but generally, if you perform well in SATs you perform better in GCSE's and vice versa

Obviously there are exceptions to everything, but the data doesn't lie

AnnieCat84 Mon 08-Apr-19 20:46:34

I'm a Year 6 teacher and it's not as simple as pass/fail. You don't fail the SATs, you just end up working towards the expected standard. Some end up very close to the expected standard, some are way off, but you don't 'fail'. Has the teacher told you what her gaps are so you can help?

Secondary schools do retest but it's important to remember that her SATs scores set her GCSE targets. Just like the KS1 SATs scores set the targets for KS2 SATs. I don't agree with the system as children all achieve at different rates, but I don't think tearing them up and ignoring them is the right thing to do either.

Kolo Mon 08-Apr-19 20:47:32

@edwinbear, I hope you aren’t worrying about this. Of course secondary schools are able to assess your child on entry and will continue assessing them through their time at the school. My last school had a 240 entry each year and probably 20+ kids came in with no SATs score for a variety of reasons. We’d use internal assessments early on to help with initial setting.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:48:27

It’s not right to use a test they do at 11 as a marker for how good their gcse results will be when they’re 16

However, that is the accountability measure for schools used by the Government. Until the government changes its accountability measures (and tbh progress while in the school is a LOT better than raw results), then schools will use them.

Challenge the government, rather than the schools.

BarbarianMum Mon 08-Apr-19 20:48:48

No half decent secondary school would write a pupil off because of a low SATS result.

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:50:31

barbarian, absolutely. Especially as the mark the OP mentions is, in fact, 99 - pretty much bang on 'average', rather than being 'low'.

onetwothreex Mon 08-Apr-19 20:51:26

What kind of message are you trying to send to your dd? So what if she doesn't pass? And if it bothers you so much, why aren't you helping her, or getting a tutor or something? I hate when people say that sats are not important and that it's only important for schools. A lot of secondary schools set according to sats results and gcse targets are based on sats too, so she will kind of know how she did in her sats. Kids who "fail" sats get extra help too in year 7. You need to grow up and perhaps start helping your child not only academically but mentally too. I suppose it's affecting her self esteem because she knows how much it is affecting you, so maybe you are the problem and not sats. How is she going to cope in year 7 when they do tests all the time? How is she going to cope with gcse? are you going to rip the results too?

InternetArgument Mon 08-Apr-19 20:52:55

Not at all. SATs aren’t set for the benefit of children.

Testing isn’t education. It’s a terrible habit and I hope we all grow out of it

Playmytune Mon 08-Apr-19 20:53:18

A lot depends on the teacher. When my son was in p3 he was meeting his maths targets. By the time he finished p4 he was still at p3 level, in fact his results were worse than those achieved at the same level the previous year. In p5 he had a fantastic teacher and the improvement in his maths was virtually unbelievable. When he went into p6 they shared teaching with p7, with children taught according to their abilities. He ended up in the top p6/7 group! In other words he apparently went from p3 level to p7 level in one year, all thanks to a wonderful teacher who recognised his abilities and took the time to nurture him. Hopefully your daughter will have a teacher(s) who nurtures her next year and she will come on in leaps and bounds!!

onetwothreex Mon 08-Apr-19 20:53:45

And just to add, at my dc school, the head teacher tells each child their results.

Pixie2015 Mon 08-Apr-19 20:53:57

Celebrate what she has done and show her you are proud that she tried x

BackInTime Mon 08-Apr-19 20:54:04

I would not hide the results as your DD will be aware others have had their results and might feel that by not sharing them that it is something to be ashamed of. I would not make a big fuss of it maybe just focus on her progress, how hard she tried and positives she has achieved in primary school. Secondary school is very results orientated with lots of tests and setting by ability so hiding all this from her is not helpful.

Mangetoutrodney Mon 08-Apr-19 20:54:07

@onetwothreex you literally know nothing about me. I was just trying to protect my DD- I wouldn’t rip them up in front of her- I just wouldn’t tell her the actual grade.

And actually, I can’t afford a tutor

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 20:57:27

If she got 99 in the Maths mock, and works hard from now to the time of the test, she is very likely to get at least the same, possibly better in the final tests. It's an average result, not a low one. Why not share it with her? Celebrate every added mark, not because 'it takes her over the magic 100', but because she will have worked hard for it and the improvement shows progress, which is always to be celebrated.

BarbarianMum Mon 08-Apr-19 21:00:03

It is very likely that the school will tell her her grade OP. At our school they tell the children individually and then they all tell each other. So be prepared for that.

I get that you want to protect her but the chances are she's spent the last school year working for these exams. That should be acknowledged and celebrated, not brushed under the carpet.

FlashingLights101 Mon 08-Apr-19 21:00:51

Don't think you can withdraw from SATS.

From the school perspective if your DD didn't sit them she would be shown as a fail anyway

Is this true? My DS is only in Yr2, but his teacher told us they won't be putting him in for the SATS (there's no way he could pass them, he is well below average) and I must admit the cynical part of me did wonder whether it was for his benefit, or if it was because he would lower the school's average... But if they are marked as a fail if they don't take them regardless, that is interesting.

Haffdonga Mon 08-Apr-19 21:01:06

Whatever you think about SATs -
if you rip them up without looking you are saying to your dd I don't value your result or the effort you put in to get it. I am so sure your results are rubbish that I can't be bothered to look

If you open them and you praise your dd for her effort pass or fail then you are giving her the message that trying hard is worthwhile.
(Wow, dd you worked so hard, I'm so proud of your effort)

ineedaholidaynow Mon 08-Apr-19 21:06:15

Flashinglights I think the school can make that decision (within strict criteria) but I don't think parents can. Obviously they can not send their children in when SATS are taking place, although I think there is about 5 day window afterwards, when they can still take them (as long as they have had no contact with anyone who has sat them)

onetwothreex Mon 08-Apr-19 21:06:52

if you rip your dd results you are not protecting her, you are doing the opposite! Fair enough you can't afford a tutor, but are you going to tell me you can't help her at home, especially when she is so close to get 100? It's not just the school job to help your dd, it's also your job!

Fazackerley Mon 08-Apr-19 21:10:09

Sats mean nothing. Absolutely nothing.

The only reason I bothered to look at dds was because her boring shite primary ruined her year 6 with constant fucking extra maths so I felt I owed her the decency of at least looking at them and saying well done.

YouSayPotatoesISayVodka Mon 08-Apr-19 21:11:22

Writing kids off at 11 on the basis of some bloody narrow tests annoys me a lot

Bloody snap. It’s not right to use a test they do at 11 as a marker for how good their gcse results will be when they’re 16.

Fazackerley Mon 08-Apr-19 21:16:41

But it's a shit marker. Dd is already achieving 2 grades more than her Sats predicted.

HelloMonday Mon 08-Apr-19 21:16:47

I dont mind if my child fails their maths SATs, the school has said since reception that there's room for improvement, but done fuck all to progress them. Year 6 they wanted attendance at 7:45am revision sessions and easter holiday sessions.
Ffs i did less revision to pass my gcses! (And degree!)
I really tried to make it and couldn't drag my kids out, (or myself) to schlepp across our city. In the dark morning hours.
So i said no. Teacher wasnt pleased. So i told them I'm fine with whatever result, because it measures the school and will reflect the lack of help they gave in 6 years of schooling. Rather than coach them to pass. Let secondary see they need the extra help in that subject. Ideally they'd have cared about DCs actual understanding of the subject, more than about understanding enough to get through SATs.
On the other side, my child does really well at english, enjoys the subject, has a really good imagination for creative writing, but they showed no interest in push them into the high achiever/G&T set.
Meh, I'll save my pushing for GCSEs and Alevels, they actually matter. SATs dont go on a cv or applications.
If the school dont want to push them forwards in math or english, until it's time for SATs, then they can jog on.
Top school in the city (impossible to get in to) told us during our tour, they know SATs results are pointless, they retest gently, 3 times in year 7, so stream kids correctly. Then assess regularly so improving kids can move up and others can get more support through their schooling. Sounds much better.

@OP I'll look at the result and congratulate my child on their effort, they worked hard, which I appreciate and they have no clue they're 'failing' because neither school or myself tell them the mock results.
How you handle it will make a huge difference. Good luck @OP

Solopower1 Mon 08-Apr-19 21:48:13

Kolo, I'm so glad you're on this thread, along with others who speak sense.

OP, when I first saw your post, I thought, 'Yes, rip them up, show some solidarity with her', but in light of what others have said, I'm not sure. It probably won't help in the long run, if you undermine the school and the system, bad as it is.

The most important thing is your daughter's self-esteem, imo, and she needs to have some hope of success, some feeling of agency to carry her through her secondary schooling, or she could risk becoming disengaged and fed up, and wasting her time. But you sound like a lovely parent, and she knows you are on her side, which is far more important than anything else.

You might have to do some damage limitation (especially when other parents or children boast about their results).

I think the best thing to do is simply to behave as if the results are of little or no significance. Tell her what other posters have suggested, and that you are proud of her anyway, for the lovely person she is and how hard she has worked, and there's more to life than SATs. You can always tell her how you were a late developer, to reassure her that her future isn't all decided at age 11. Maybe even ask her and/or her teacher what she finds most difficult and see if you can help her at all - but in the spirit of 'we can do this if you want to give it a go, but you'll be fine anyway'?

Ignore her results, or 'forget' about them unless she reminds you, or ask her whether she wants to know them. Show her how little you care about them, and how much more you care about her. Good luck.

bookmum08 Mon 08-Apr-19 22:02:14

You don't 'pass' or 'fail' sats - you get a score.
You should see the teacher/head about the wording they are using to the children. Telling children that they have 'failed' the mocks is very wrong. They may have got a 'low' score but they have not failed. At all.

FermatsTheorem Mon 08-Apr-19 22:04:31

One take-home message from this thread, for anyone whose child is year 5 or lower: when you go round secondary schools - ask how they use SATs. I mentioned the school which cut children off from learning languages age 11 on the basis of SATs. The school we put first on the form, the maths teacher said "we spend a lot of year 7 showing them maths is interesting after the damage done by SATs."

(I'm struggling with the fact that extra time for children with dyslexia is at the discretion of the school, so DS's school only authorises extra time for children likely to fail. Despite DS getting freaked out by distractions, freaked out by other children starting to answer the comprehension questions before he's finished reading the text, frustrated that the teacher tells him "check your work" when he runs out of time before he can do this. The one occasion where they gave him extra time, he got all the maths questions right bar one.)

Hollowvictory Mon 08-Apr-19 22:05:30

Don't you want to know where she needs support so you can help her at home? The bar for passing is quite low so I'd think if she fails she does need some extra help from you rather than ripping up the results in a temper.

Jamhandprints Mon 08-Apr-19 22:12:06

Will you get the results? Most schools don't send them out, as it's not that kind of test. It's just to measure the schools effectiveness not the kids achievement.
Just read them with her quickly and celebrate that she did her best and they're over now.

Jimjamjong Mon 08-Apr-19 22:16:37

A test or exam is not a reflection of her worth or how good a human being she is. It is just a test, all she can go is give it her best shot and no one can ask her more than that.
I wouldn't tear up the results but be ready to do a nice activity after you receive them. Whether she got a good score or not, it is worth recompensing the effort.

Soontobe60 Mon 08-Apr-19 22:18:45

The school are wrong to use terms pass and fail. Your child will get a standardised score. There is not a pass mark!

elkiedee Mon 08-Apr-19 22:21:40

I totally understand wanting to rip them up but it's probably a good idea to find out what they are. Teachers shouldn't tell kids they have failed or are failing etc though.

Presumably you've already chosen a secondary school. What is their policy on streaming/setting/mixed ability? In my DS1's school in year 7, teaching is mixed ability including maths.

Secondary schools need to look beyond SATs at primary school, and anyone still to choose secondary school, maybe this is something to note when choosing secondary. An academy primary school practically next door to DS1's secondary was found to have cheated in its 2018 SATS, and Panorama featured a small chain running primaries in a neighbouring borough and that they cheated in SATs as well. I found this of interest because my son's primary school's governors had to resist being forced to join this very same chain in 2013.

Clutterbugsmum Mon 08-Apr-19 22:28:50

I would try to take the pressure of your DD, SAT's don't matter.

Yes high school may use them to know what groups/sets they put your child in when they start but they will stream your child into the correct set.

My DD1 only just got 4 in her SAT's but is in the top sets in all her classes and is predicted to get 7's, 8's in her GCSE's.

KnickerBockerGlooooory Mon 08-Apr-19 22:45:15

Y6 is awful, I sympathise. DD2 had a hellish time and the pressure was horrible - I absolutely agree that your DD should just do her best but the results will not define her, or predict her likely GCSE grades in 5 years time.
DD was like a different child in Y7 so good luck with the last few weeks until the tests in May, get them done and then look forward to all the fun end of year stuff.
Are you confident with the secondary she's going to?

Dana28 Mon 08-Apr-19 22:46:13

At my kids school GCSE target grades are based on lots of things of which data is just one.More recent tests are weighted more heavily.cats and yellis testing are important even postcode and parents socioeconomic category as included in the formula

cantkeepawayforever Mon 08-Apr-19 22:52:05

At my kids school GCSE target grades are based on lots of things of which data is just one.

Absolutely - DC's school, along with many others, uses FFT to gnerate predictions.

However, what the school is MEASURED against, in Government league table and the gov.uk website of school comparison (and also in Ofsted's frameworks for inspection, though not all schools have been inspected under the latest versions) is progress from SATs grades. Progress8 is just that - progress from KS2 SATs compared with the cohort of children with the same SATs starting point.

So a school can choose to SET its targets however it wants (it isn't measured by its target grades) - but ultimately its aim will be to perform well in (amongst others) the progress measures, which are from KS2 SATs.

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