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To be fed up of posters who deny something happens based only on the fact it hasn't happened to them

(86 Posts)
MrsGideon Wed 03-Apr-19 13:59:15

Twice in the last 10 minutes I have opened a thread where a woman is talking about a man or men acting in a creepy or inappropriate way towards her, and both times the first poster to reply has come out with something like "well it's NEVER EVER happened to me so you must be wrong" or "don't generalise because 99.99999% of men are perfect and would never do this", or even "you're misconstruing it OP, it's completely normal and you shouldn't blow things out of proportion".

For fucks sake, when women aren't even believed by OTHER WOMEN it's a fucking bleak world to live in.

To the posters who do this: are you so wrapped up in your own little bubble that you can't comprehend that other people's experiences could differ from your own? Does it make you feel superior to post your comment admonishing women for feeling uncomfortable and silencing their experiences?

Just stop it.

mclaleli Wed 03-Apr-19 14:00:33

I always thought when people said 'it's never happened to me' it was code for 'I think you are a troll/liar'

Nesssie Wed 03-Apr-19 14:02:53

Orrrr is it that people on MN always seem to have the most extreme things happen? The poster in question must be very unlucky to have had 4 extreme recent examples of creepy men. And then when people don't think they are necessarily creepy, additional creepiness is then dripfed?

Shoxfordian Wed 03-Apr-19 14:05:07

Thanks @MrsGideon
Totally agree

howdoyoukeepawaveuponthesand Wed 03-Apr-19 14:05:38

Internalised misogyny is real and so harmful.

I count my lucky stars that I have never been seriously sexually assaulted in my life but I have experienced all levels of creepiness, low level unwanted groping and workplace sexual harassment.

I haven’t shared many of these experiences with anyone other than my very best friend and my partner because when I have told others - bosses, parents, colleagues - they have been dismissive, victim blaming and cruel.

NAMALT... but I haven’t met every man. I have met lots of men who were definitely creeps and other men who may or may not be creeps.

HarrysOwl Wed 03-Apr-19 14:05:39

I see creepiness everywhere.

misses point

MrsGideon Wed 03-Apr-19 14:07:15

Nesssie as I mentioned, it was two threads in the space of 10 minutes. And given that every single woman I know regularly has something of that ilk happen to them, I'm inclined to think that no, Mumsnet is not only representative of the most extreme examples.

CalmDownPacino Wed 03-Apr-19 14:07:29

It is a subtle way of NAMALT'ing. Many women find it absolutely imperative to defend men at every turn, usually to demonstrate how cool and fun they are. Not like those men-hating feminists.

Men don't need to rely on other men for misogyny because a great many women have internalised it. As demonstrated frequently.

MrsGideon Wed 03-Apr-19 14:09:06

howdo I actually wonder if the people saying those things just have their heads buried so deep in the sand that they are genuinely oblivious now. So even if something like that happens to them, their internalised misogyny means they don't pick up on it?

FriarTuck Wed 03-Apr-19 14:09:42

when women aren't even believed by OTHER WOMEN it's a fucking bleak world to live in.
I disagree because you're saying that we should automatically believing every other poster just because she's a woman. I'm not going to automatically believe everyone, but equally I'm not going to disbelieve someone just because I've not experienced it. I will point out if necessary that not all men are bastards / cheats / lazy / leave the toilet seat up / forget birthdays / insert generalisation of choice.

MrsGideon Wed 03-Apr-19 14:12:21

FriarTuck But why? Unless said poster is saying "all men are cunts who can't be trusted" (which by the way, neither of these posters were), why do you feel the need to point that out?

PinkHeart5914 Wed 03-Apr-19 14:12:43

Some of the rubbish you read on here is so far fectched though, a lot of it is clearly bullshit or at least embellished to get the replies they want.

I don’t just automatically believe someone because they have a vagina, why would I just because I have a vagina too? I could tell you the grass is pink would you believe me because we both have vaginas?

Yes a small amount of threads will be completely true without even a hint of embellishment but take them all with a pinch of salt

clairemcnam Wed 03-Apr-19 14:13:22

Some young women do get these things happening to them more than others. A friend who was slim but with very large breasts got creepy comments said to her every single day by random men. Just because I didn't, it did not mean that I said she was lying.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino Wed 03-Apr-19 14:13:45

I have made a decision not to entertain NAMALT in any way, shape or form. It is minimizing and deflecting. So many women have been socialised not to ever speak ill of men.

I'm also starting to get utter fed up of how often MNers are incapable of viewing and debating things objectively. Such a bunch of narcissists, having to make everything about themselves. They get so defensive, it's utterly tiresome and stifles debate.

ToEarlyForDecorations Wed 03-Apr-19 14:14:19

Many women find it absolutely imperative to defend men at every turn, __usually to demonstrate how cool and fun they are.__

Oh don't they just. One of they guys (probably a defence mechanism against further harassment. I guess they 'earned their stripes' by putting up with the harassment in the first place or be attractive enough to get respect of the guys.)

MrsGideon Wed 03-Apr-19 14:18:27

PinkHeart Fine, you don't know whether someone is telling the truth or not when they're posting anonymously online. But when it's a thread about how constantly women are harrassed in life, why do people feel the need to question their credibility? You might not believe it but why do you have to voice that? This exact same thing happens when people try and call out this shit in real life and it's exhausting.

The same thing happened to me when an acquaintance put his fingers inside my vagina on a night out at university. My 'friends' would rather have told me they didn't believe me than rock the boat and potentially ruin the night

FriarTuck Wed 03-Apr-19 14:23:43

Unless said poster is saying "all men are cunts who can't be trusted" (which by the way, neither of these posters were), why do you feel the need to point that out?
I said that I'd point out 'if necessary' - if a poster is saying that all men are something then I'd point it out, if they're not then obviously I wouldn't. But I'm not going to give someone the automatic benefit of the doubt because they're a woman. I'll judge it on how realistic and truthful it sounds, the same as I would anything.

MrsGideon Wed 03-Apr-19 14:25:29

ToEarlyForDecorations I used to be one of these women to an extent (I'm ashamed to say), but many many horrible experiences opened my eyes to it and I now cannot abide apologists anymore

Graphista Wed 03-Apr-19 14:28:38

Absolutely agree!

And not just on this subject either.

See also:

In terms of misogyny:

Gender pay gap
Maternity discrimination
General employment discrimination
Periods (women REFUSING to accept that many women have heavy, lengthy, extremely painful periods and 😱 need to spend more than tuppence as a result)
Nhs treatment of girls & women
Treatment of single mothers
Treatment of renters (eg "no DSS" when it's mainly single mothers claiming hb, who are most vulnerable to unscrupulous landlords)
Treatment of women by financial services...

In terms of general discrimination:

Treatment of the disabled
Treatment of the mentally ill...

I've also noticed a horrific amount of dismissal of bame mners when they try to discuss particularly less obvious race discrimination.

As a white woman it's not my place to comment yet I see plenty of other white mners doing so in derogatory ways.

But yes definitely as a general thing it is VERY irritating when certain posters (I've noticed certain usernames more guilty of this) come onto a thread and completely dismiss a posters experience, not because they think they're lying or a troll but because they're too narrow minded to consider that everyone's experience of life is NOT the same!

clairemcnam Wed 03-Apr-19 14:35:58

I'm also starting to get utter fed up of how often MNers are incapable of viewing and debating things objectively. Such a bunch of narcissists, having to make everything about themselves.

Yes 100% agree. If anyone posts something an incident say where an accountant, or Dr, or teenage boy was nasty to them, there are always posters chiming in to say - my DP is an accountant/Dr/I have a teenage boy, and he would never do anything like that. As if that has ANY relevance to the OP.

Also agree that according to many MNers there is no such thing as racism. Because whenever a black or asian women talking about a racist experience, I see the same MNers piling in to tell her she is wrong and that is not racist, and often adding that real racism happens abroad or to white people.

Commenting on MN which is supposedly full of intelligent women has made me realise how we have a conservative government and a vote to leave.

Lizzie48 Wed 03-Apr-19 14:35:59

I've seen that, it's depressing how many women don't want to believe other women's accounts of sexual harassment just because it's something they haven't experienced. Newsflash, just because you haven't experienced something it doesn't mean that it can't have happened to other people. I've never been mugged or witnessed a mugging; it doesn't mean I'll doubt someone's account of having been mugged.

But then, it isn't all that surprising, as troll hunting is a very popular pastime on Mumsnet.

clairemcnam Wed 03-Apr-19 14:39:05

But yes definitely as a general thing it is VERY irritating when certain posters (I've noticed certain usernames more guilty of this) come onto a thread and completely dismiss a posters experience, not because they think they're lying or a troll but because they're too narrow minded to consider that everyone's experience of life is NOT the same!

Also seen this dismissal when someone has a visible disability talks about being treated badly by strangers, especially if they are not pretty and young. And it is totally because they have never experienced it, so do not think it could be true.

MrsGideon Wed 03-Apr-19 14:42:21

Graphista Yup, I've seen all of those at work on here. The period one I find absolutely flabbergasting... Surely it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that other women have heavier periods than you?!

EleanorOalike Wed 03-Apr-19 14:47:14

YANBU. I’ve been in genuinely unsafe and frightening situations with adult men starting from age 12 when I was sexually assaulted in a crowded public place by a complete stranger. On every occasion, other women found some way to blame me. Usually “well you are a pretty girl/attractive young woman, what do you expect?”. It’s one of the most upsetting things about being on the receiving end of this kind of thing. You’d expect other women to at least try and empathise, not blame you.

It’s bizarre when the police will take you totally seriously and agree that what has been done to you is a criminal offence and other women say “oh I feel sorry for him, he’s harmless really” or “well maybe if yo didn’t wear makeup/make so much of an effort with your appearance etc this wouldn’t have happened”.

For what it’s worth, I never show anything other than my arms and only wear natural makeup. Not that wearing skimpy clothes or lots of makeup should give men a free pass to assault, harass or stalk women.

I’ve even had women say, “oh I wish someone would be interested enough to stalk me!”

Seriously? You want to be looking over your shoulder, in fear for your life throughout your teens and twenties because a man you said hello to once believes he’s entitled to you? You want to have to watch him walk past your house dozens of times a day, post notes through your door and follow you to all your hobbies and work? You want him to also then start stalking your family and friends? Really?”

Those women who constantly leap to the defense of aggressive, abusive and entitled men seriously need to question their motives.

ScreamScreamIceCream Wed 03-Apr-19 14:53:32

OP is because soo many people live in their own bubbles.

Oh @Graphista add to your list ageism in the form of younger parents and older parents.

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