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To question my long held beliefs against capital punishment after what happened to Alesha MacPhail

(350 Posts)
Noteventhebirdsareupyet Sat 23-Mar-19 08:42:50

Hi all,

I have recently been really shaken by the Alesha MacPhailcase and possibly because I now have a tiny daughter of my own, I am feeling really affected by what has happened.

I have always had reasonably strong views against capital punishment and have often argued that:

No one has the right to take the life of another.

When capital punishment is lawful, mistakes are made and innocent people get killed.

We are supposedly a civilised society.

Often offenders were victims first and therefore need empathy and have been failed by the system.....

However I am now shocked to find myself thinking that if a person can do the things that Aaron Campbell has done to a tiny, innocent girl and show absolutely no remorse, then perhaps instead of spending hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money keeping him incarcerated and then putting communities at risk upon his release, maybe we as a society should say that this person is intrinsically evil and has no place among us.

I honestly never imagined myself feeling like this and maybe it is because I am now a mother that I do. Surely people like him don't deserve a second chance and should be killed before they ruin more lives.

Am I being unreasonable to feel like this? Has anyone else had a turning point like me? I feel that my family and friends would be a bit shocked to hear me say "let's kill dangerous criminals" but this incident has had a profound effect on my outlook and I feel like I can't voice my opinions out loud.

Hefzi Sat 23-Mar-19 08:44:40

Voice your opinions out loud, why not? It's the sign of a mature intellect to accept that opinions can change in the light of new/different material.

LegoPiecesEverywhere Sat 23-Mar-19 08:47:07

I don’t believe in capital punishments but life should mean life with no comfort at a low cost to the tax payer.

MsVestibule Sat 23-Mar-19 08:49:55

Feel free to voice them, but I'll still think you're wrong, for most of the reasons you've outlined in the first half of your post.

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking Sat 23-Mar-19 08:50:50

Children killing children, the answer isn't killing another child. That does not balance out the cosmos I'm afraid.

Anyone who promotes such medieval ideas sounds like a page from an ISIS training manual.

BillywigSting Sat 23-Mar-19 08:54:40

I still disagree strongly with capital punishment, I think it is vengeance rather than justice and yes innocent people get killed when it is lawful. That's the big sticking point for me.

I think people like him should be put to hard labour for life, and that life should mean life, not 20 years or so.

People like him may well be evil and have no place in our society, but I think it says a lot about our society if we are willing to kill them

Graphista Sat 23-Mar-19 08:54:40

What legopieces said.

I don't believe in capital punishment for different reasons

Not stooping to the level of these bastards

Death is an easy out for them, let them live and suffer. This one appears to have no conscience at all so his guilt won't bother him unfortunately. But he was so desperately avoiding prison I can only hope it's his hell.

I'm not far from where this happened, whatever I think I'll be very surprised if he lasts 5 years anyway, some kind of "accident" will befall him I suspect.

It's alesha and her parents & loved ones I feel for, I can't imagine how utterly distraught they must be.

Inliverpool1 Sat 23-Mar-19 08:54:43

He’s not right in the head is he. I worry as a society how we’ve missed that. I don’t want other mentally ill people state murdered either so whilst I don’t know what the answer is, I don’t think he should ever be released I don’t actually think a life on bread and water is going to help.

Sitdownstandup Sat 23-Mar-19 08:56:04

I understand your anger. There are a great many people whose absence the planet would benefit from, and if this one had a fatal heart attack today I would not be sorry.

However, the right not to be killed by the state, particularly given that there would be some mistakes, is too important for me to be willing to give up just because of this piece of shit.

OwlinaTree Sat 23-Mar-19 08:56:43

Horrendous case. I've only read a bit on the BBC website but sounds like he's got some mental health issues and can't separate reality and fantasy.

It's quite clear in the sentencing he may never be released.

I don't believe in capital punishment, but I've never been victim of such a horrendous crime. Maybe if I was I might feel differently.

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking Sat 23-Mar-19 08:57:12

This whole case opens up a can or worms; the childs father being a drug dealer and supplying the lad, who went on to kills.

funnylittlefloozie Sat 23-Mar-19 08:58:25

I dont blame you one little bit for questioning your belief. Cases like this make me want to bring back the death penalty as well... even though i dont believe in it, dont believe it is a societal deterrent blah blah blah. That poor little girl and her poor mum...

I think the Campbell boy will have an awful time inside, and i can't say i'm sorry about that.

eddiemairswife Sat 23-Mar-19 08:59:30

We didn't hang 16 year olds when we had it.

Noteventhebirdsareupyet Sat 23-Mar-19 08:59:32

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking

What about when he is released, he could be as young as 42, he could have the right to enjoy half of his life as a free man. Surely that is not right either.

It's not about balancing the cosmos at all, it's about saying that this person doesn't deserve to live and quite possibly put more children at risk. It's an adult crime that he has committed and whether you think I belong in ISIS or not, I would rather see him dead in a heartbeat than released and living among any community.

So I suppose rather than punishment, for me it's about mitigating future risks and just saying that this person has no right to life.

That is actually a new thought, this thread is helping me understand myself better already. Thanks for your contributions so far.

Sitdownstandup Sat 23-Mar-19 08:59:38

I'm not sure it would function as much of a deterrent, especially not in cases like this. There isn't any evidence that introducing it has any positive impact on crime rates.

LateEaster Sat 23-Mar-19 08:59:50

What hefzi said.

Cerseilannisterinthesnow Sat 23-Mar-19 09:00:39

After seeing the video of the sentencing online and hearing what the judge had to say e.g. that Aaron Campbell struggled to keep from laughing during the course of the hearing, showed no empathy or remorse during his evaluation with the psychiatrist and then hearing the poor mother sobbing during the sentencing I am inclined to agree with you but my more moral side has to agree with other posters that life should be life and at no comfort whatsoever. I don’t think he will ever be released though

HelloToMyKitty Sat 23-Mar-19 09:01:32

I know what you mean OP. My views have hardened as of late, especially where it concerns crimes against children. I am starting to think that it should be available in rare cases. That said, I do come from a country where death penalty is around in some areas and there have definitely been some miscarriages of justice. But I don’t think that necessarily has to be the case.

let them live and suffer

They don’t, though, so they?

Antigonads Sat 23-Mar-19 09:01:59

I was shocked at his 27 year sentence. Should be life. And medical castration.

echt Sat 23-Mar-19 09:04:17

YABVVVVU.

For every sentence that feels "safe" as this one where he has admitted his guilt, and there has been, apparently overwhelming evidence, there are those have admitted guilt under duress/had shit lawyers/shown/not shown remorse. Where do they stand?

Your being a mother means zip in terms of justice, unless you're advancing this as some enhanced insight into right-thinking. Which it isn't.

If anyone killed my DC, I'd like free range with a baseball bat. It would be wrong for me to be permitted this.

Cerseilannisterinthesnow Sat 23-Mar-19 09:04:58

Judge states he was found to have no mental health issues

MrsJayy Sat 23-Mar-19 09:05:40

First of all I don't think he will ever be released his sentence will be reviewed once he is up for parole, I think you are right though living is too good for him.

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:08:03

He has got life. It doesn’t mean he will be released after 27 years, it’s not automatic. In fact, Lord Matthew did stress he didn’t think Campbell be rehabilitated.

And for the posters who are mentioning mental health, Lord Matthews did pass comment that he has no mental health conditions.

I appreciate the emotion behind this case, I feel it two and have colleagues who were on the enquiry team but the comments about capital punishment don’t help.

Regards what we think about Campbell, he would have been executed when we did have the death penalty.

Sitdownstandup Sat 23-Mar-19 09:08:38

That said, I do come from a country where death penalty is around in some areas and there have definitely been some miscarriages of justice. But I don’t think that necessarily has to be the case.

It's a system run by humans, so there are going to be errors. It's all very well people coming up with conditions to make sure it can only happen in very rare, cast iron cases, but they're not going to be followed. Not just because people make mistakes, but because criminal justice is hugely politicised. We already know that we live in a country where we do things like try 10 year olds as adults because of the hideousness of their crimes, ie we will get rid of safeguards if we are sufficiently disgusted and the public make enough of a fuss about it.

Katterinaballerina Sat 23-Mar-19 09:08:40

As above,

‘Lord Matthews said the reports concluded that Campbell was not suffering from a mental health disorder but showed a total lack of victim empathy’

Please can people stop saying that people who do appalling things have mental health issues. Most people with mental health issues are only a risk for self harm.

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:09:03

Wouldn’t have been executed!!

OwlinaTree Sat 23-Mar-19 09:09:04

Is that really possible though cerseil?

feelingverylazytoday Sat 23-Mar-19 09:10:09

I have a feeling that this person will take his own life in a few years time, if he has the means to do it. Human life holds no intrinsic value for him and life inside will be very dull with little opportunity for thrills. I think the need for kicks and excjtement is what drives him. I actually agree with you, OP. some people should be humanly 'put down' for the good of society.

SerenDippitty Sat 23-Mar-19 09:10:30

There is clearly something very very wrong with Campbell. I doubt he will ever be released.

I am still opposed to capital punishment and always will be.

Cerseilannisterinthesnow Sat 23-Mar-19 09:10:46

That’s what was found by the psychiatrists in the background reports

Whatsername7 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:11:00

Your feelings are primal and completely normal if you have just given birth. Your brain is hardwired to protect your baby and the hormones that are flooding your system are designed to help you feel protective of your baby, which makes horrific events such as this feel almost personal, despite you not knowing the poor little girl or the evil bastard who murdered her. That is why some women suffering from postnatal depression have anxiety around the health and well being of their baby, even if the feel they have no bond to the baby. The fact that the non hormonal, more rational you is against capital punishment means these feelings feel confusing and alien to you, and, they will change as your hormones settle and your baby grows.
The monster who did this should rot in a cell for the rest of his life. He will not get an easy ride from the other prisoners. The saddest part is, no matter how he suffers, nothing will bring back that little girl.

Patroclus Sat 23-Mar-19 09:11:01

16 isnt he? wouldnt have been executed anyway

Skittlesss Sat 23-Mar-19 09:11:10

I think when a child murders another child it’s so shocking and the public reacts in a more emotive way than when an adult is the murderer.

Haz1516 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:12:40

I absolutely agree. I followed the case and it brought me to tears. Especially the part where he apparently took her from her bed, and as she woke up he told her he was a friend of her dad's and have her a coat to keep her warm. The injuries the girl received were worse than anything the pathologist had ever seen. He smiled at the mother during the sentencing and apparently told a social worker that he felt like laughing during the trial. He had a total lack of remorse.

I used to really strongly feel that a life for a life was totally wrong and a terrible marker on the idea of being 'civilised'. But I think it's since becoming a mother myself that it's changed, and the idea that we are paying to keep people like this alive and fed disgusts me. The idea that people like him even exist terrifies me. He will never give anything positive back to society.

Noteventhebirdsareupyet Sat 23-Mar-19 09:13:05

Why do people think he will never be released when Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were out aged 18 with new identities? Venebles then went on to re-offend.

Maybe I don't care about his remorselessness, maybe I just think that anyone capable of doing this should be killed. I really don't know anymore. Perhaps having worked in prisons few times as a researcher for advocacy services and seeing how comfortable the lives of quite serious offenders can be has made me feel that people who spend "life" in prison don't have it too bad in this country.

I do take your points though and remind myself that even one person being mistakenly killed by the state is a horrendous thought.

OwlinaTree Sat 23-Mar-19 09:13:35

It's not saying all people with mental health issues are capable of murder though is it? There are many many different ways mental health can affect people. People with depression or eating disorders can be described as having a mental health condition. That doesn't mean they are going to hurt others.

SerenDippitty Sat 23-Mar-19 09:13:48

And for the posters who are mentioning mental health, Lord Matthews did pass comment that he has no mental health conditions.

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a personality disorder. His lack of empathy would seem to suggest he does.

SilverySurfer Sat 23-Mar-19 09:14:01

As terrible as any case is, I'm totally against capital punishment but the person should remain in prison for life.

Sitdownstandup Sat 23-Mar-19 09:14:25

Much as I'm opposed to the death penalty and also really to prison at all for more minor crimes (it doesn't work and just wastes money) I do think we need to be more accepting that some people are just a danger to the public and shouldn't be released. Mick Philpott, for example, by the time he killed his kids he'd done enough that if it were up to me he'd have been in prison for life. After the first attempted murder conviction, I don't think he should have been out again after the next violent assault, and the criminal justice system needs to reflect this. People with that type of offence pattern.

echt Sat 23-Mar-19 09:15:19

Why do people think he will never be released when Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were out aged 18 with new identities?

They were children. Aaron Campbell isn't.

Cherylshaw Sat 23-Mar-19 09:16:25

I believe in corporal punishment, if it is 100% proven they are guilty. I disagree with some of the reports that blame cannabis and video games for turning him into a killer. His lack of guilt and remorse, no empathy and humorous regarding his trial make it look like he is a psychopath. I feel like the change in allowing his identity to be known was a step forward and wish that was the case with Jamie Bulger's killers, we should know what they look like and where they are

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:16:31

Op, perhaps listen to the judges sentencing?

There is no point comparing it to James Bulger. And there are less high profile offenders in Scotland that will never be released, it’s not guaranteed he will get out.

Sitdownstandup Sat 23-Mar-19 09:17:27

He is still a child, but there's a big difference between 16-17 years and 10. That is obviously going to make a difference in terms of assessment of culpability.

Cherylshaw Sat 23-Mar-19 09:18:49

Robert Thomson and John Venables should never have had there identity hidden, they should have lived with the consequences of what they had done

Deadbydaylight Sat 23-Mar-19 09:18:53

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a personality disorder. His lack of empathy would seem to suggest he does.

Lack of empathy would suggest psychopath. The impulsivity of the kill too. But only traits, I doubt he scores very high on the test as it would have been mentioned.

He has 27 years minimum then further testing to be considered for release. Like Sutcliffe. It's unlikely he will pass those tests. They may rig the tests a bit I imagine, but I'm happy to turn a blind eye to that to keep people like that behind bars.

PositiveDiscipline Sat 23-Mar-19 09:19:20

I don't think it is realistic to bring back CP for one reason. That is, we would be hanging someone (or whatever) every day of the week.

Seriously, look at how many people have been killed since 01 Jan. There are 40 stabbings alone.

More importantly I think we as a nation need to do something very drastic to stop the constant abuse, violence and murder by MEN which happens nearly every day of the week.

I've lived in 4 other countries and I never saw such abuse and violence as I do here. It did happen, but very rarely.

Drogosnextwife Sat 23-Mar-19 09:20:52

I agree with everything Graphista said. I'm also close by and was actually on the Isle of Bute a week after this happened to that poor little girl, it was tragic but I still don't believe that the death penalty is the best punishment. I think that prison life needs to be taken back in time a little.

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:21:04

Dead Lord Matthews also commented that he had psychopathic traits

Inliverpool1 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:22:03

Ruth Ellis smiles as the death penalty was read out apparently. I honestly don’t think you can read stuff into his actions or reactions at this stage. He should never be released though

Inliverpool1 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:23:51

Those wanting prison life to be harsher, have you read the research that punishment simply doesn’t work, in any form. Your child doesn’t stop being naughty because you smack or tell them off. Criminals stop being criminals when they decide not as a result of punishment

AntsMarching Sat 23-Mar-19 09:24:01

As someone who had a family member murdered in quite a horrific way, I do not believe in capital punishment. The man who was found guilty in my cousin’s case was given life and my aunt and uncle actually asked that capital punishment not be on the table as it doesn’t bring their son back and only harms the family of the man found guilty. His family didn’t deserve to lose a son any more than mine did.

He’s now served 30 years. I don’t know if he’ll ever get out, he’s been denied parole twice, but over the years my raw anger has subsided and I’m glad that my family asked for his life not to be taken because that wouldn’t have brought us peace.

Having said that, I’m not sure how I would feel if I had to see him, so I hope he’s never let out. I would like life to mean life.

Deadbydaylight Sat 23-Mar-19 09:24:09

Nicknacky pretty much what I thought. Maybe they won't say if he scores high but I doubt he is a 'full' one, has traits of them though. Although he has a fair amount of them..

Worried2019 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:24:17

Haven't read the full thread or all of the OP as I feel exactly the same. I've cried and even had to go home from a day out (I have very very severe Anxiety & Depression before anyone rolls their eyes) due to being upset over what I've read about this case. I have a 4yr old daughter who looks just like that little girl 😢

The killer is NOT a child he is 16 and if he can commit very adult crimes then he cannot be pardoned as a child @PlainSpeakingStraightTalking

This was truly horrific and I'm angry at the media for going into such graphic detail

"Her naked body lay unfound in a car park in woodlands" along with very graphic detail as to the damage to her genitalia. There should have been a warning before this was said. I was genuinely traumatised from it. Still am. Still shed a tear daily for what that poor, poor little girl went through.

Other than to protect my daughter, I don't want to exist in this cruel, cruel world anymore

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:24:32

I hope he lives a long, miserable life in prison and one where he is looking over his shoulder every second of the day. He is one of the worst killers Scotland has had.

MrsJayy Sat 23-Mar-19 09:24:58

Well James Bulgers murderers were sentenced as 10 year olds 25 years ago in a different country Aaron Cambell is 16 his sentencing isn't the same.

Inliverpool1 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:25:16

But in this case I don’t care if he decides never to murder another child again, he is never to be given the opportunity and he probably will be killed in prison

YouBumder Sat 23-Mar-19 09:26:37

We are supposedly a civilised society.

And this is why, even if we had the death penalty, AC couldn’t be subject to it anyway as he was only 16. Although what he did was beyond horrific it’s not the mark of a civilised society to execute teenagers.

I know what you mean about this case challenging long held beliefs, it’s so awful, and I can’t imagine many people would shed many tears if he met a terrible end.

YouBumder Sat 23-Mar-19 09:27:17

*16 year old teenagers I mean. Obv over 18 they’re fully classed as adults

echt Sat 23-Mar-19 09:28:46

He is one of the worst killers Scotland has had

And the others are....? Clue. Not the point.

Haz1516 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:29:00

Reading this thread, I really feel like some people don't understand how extreme his crime was. I still wouldn't feel capital punishment was appropriate in the vast majority of cases (although not to ever minimise the impact of other crimes), but what he did and his remorselessness is truly beyond horrific and irredeemable.

ginghamstarfish Sat 23-Mar-19 09:29:21

I agree OP, the death penalty is justified in certain cases. People like this should not be able to get out of prison and have a normal life again, and prison itself is not a huge deterrent these days.

Karmin Sat 23-Mar-19 09:29:40

Hopefully he won't survive prison...

AnnaMagnani Sat 23-Mar-19 09:29:54

He is effectively too young to be diagnosed with a personality disorder - I would suspect it is very likely he will have one. Plus or minus ADHD/autistic spectrum disorder. No mental health diagnosis means specifically nothing that would get him a psychiatric hospital placement rather than a prison sentence, not that there still isn't something wrong.

There is clearly a lot unreported but he seems to have been self-medicating with drugs to manage some of his feelings - he was buying drugs from the child's parents and there was comment that his own upbringing had issues.

There would be a big difference between what he is like now and what he is like in 10 years time once brain development has completed - and an even bigger difference after 27 years of prison. After that there still isn't a guarantee of release anyway - he could still be there forever.

Minoritym Sat 23-Mar-19 09:30:10

I believe there's a place for capital punishment. He should definitely have a full life sentence with no chance of release, at a minimum. He'll strike again.

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:30:41

echt What’s your point about my comment?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER Sat 23-Mar-19 09:31:00

I know the feeling, and hate the thought of truly vile people being imprisoned for so many years at vast taxpayer expense - only (sometimes) to be released well before any life term, and do much the same again.

However what I hate even more is the likelihood of the odd miscarriage of justice, the wrong person being hanged. I don't think there's any 100% certain way of ensuring that that's never going to happen - unless there's no way for it to happen in the first place.

echt Sat 23-Mar-19 09:31:52

Reading this thread, I really feel like some people don't understand how extreme his crime was

Do explain.

WhenWillItAllEnd Sat 23-Mar-19 09:32:13

I think it's possible to believe it would be good if this young man was to die while at the same time realising that giving the state the right to take a life is dangerous and undesirable.

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:32:44

Anna Exactly how can you know better that the psychiatrist who assessed him?

echt Sat 23-Mar-19 09:33:05

echt What’s your point about my comment?

You wrote your post, not me. Look at at what you said.

YouBumder Sat 23-Mar-19 09:33:08

Why are people making up stuff about his mental health and saying he was mentally ill?

The judge’s sentencing statement was quite clear:

According to all of the reports, you are not suffering from any mental health disorder and indeed you are not suffering from any syndrome or disorder of any kind.

I doubt he’ll ever be released but I think the judge gave him the most severe sentence he could in the circumstances.

AlexaAmbidextra Sat 23-Mar-19 09:33:26

Anyone who promotes such medieval ideas sounds like a page from an ISIS training manual.

Well that’s certainly the way to have a reasonable debate. hmm

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:34:16

echt Aye ok, I stand by my comment that he is one of the worst murders Scotland has had.

knitandpearl Sat 23-Mar-19 09:34:43

I don't think anyone should be assessing whether anyone else "deserves to live". That is what killers do.
It's not wrong to hope this guy has a terrible accident though, or be happy if he does die.

UnspiritualHome Sat 23-Mar-19 09:35:22

Venables and Thompson aren't comparable in any way. More appropriate comparators are people like Ian Huntley and Ian Brady. It's pointless talking about capital punishment in the context of Campbell because, even if we had it, we would never use it on a 16 year old.

I think what finally put me against capital punishment was the realisation of the sheer horror of what it must be like living through that last night knowing that, at 8 a.m., you are going to be put to death: your entire being must scream at you to get away but there is nothing you can do about it. I guess there are people out there who will say, in effect, "So what, look at what they put their victims to", but it seems to me that, as a society, we simply cannot countenance that sort of outright cold-blooded cruelty in our names. It would put us at a level lower than that of the murderers concerned. Sure, if it were my child I would wish the worst death possible on the murderer, but society can't be governed by my primitive revenge reactions.

echt Sat 23-Mar-19 09:35:42

echt Aye ok, I stand by my comment that he is one of the worst murders Scotland has had

And what are those? So we can compare murders?

KittyWindbag Sat 23-Mar-19 09:36:10

You’re not being unreasonable to question your own beliefs. That is why we don’t make rules in the heat of emotion. I have had many tussles with family members about morality punishment vs rehabilitation. I firmly believe nobody has the right to take a life and it is not justice. My clearheaded self knows this and wants to believe in rehabilitation and if that’s not achievable than a safe and secure prison service.

I’d be lying however if I said that when I was following the case I didn’t ponder if it would be better to just put these kind of people down like violent animals. I couldn’t sleep after watching the sentencing and hearing that poor mother’s scream of pure anger and despair.

But again. We don’t make the rules based on emotional reactions and we are all the better for it.

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:37:48

echt Holy Fuck, we are discussing the rape, torture and murder of a 6 year old girl and my person opinion is what you are most annoyed about?

Get a grip.

Noteventhebirdsareupyet Sat 23-Mar-19 09:41:02

I'm sorry UnspiritualHome, I can't take on board the idea that a night of terror for a monster like Aaron Campbell should mean he is given the right to possibly be free and enjoy any kind of existence after what he has done.

It's a really interesting debate though and I have appreciated everyone's input. Many more considered responses than I was expecting.

I do think hormones are playing a part in shaping my view as a PP mentioned, tears keep rolling down my cheeks as I breastfeed my daughter and wonder what on earth the world has come to.

Folf Sat 23-Mar-19 09:41:23

I empathise with your feelings, I think the horror and anger of realising just what some people can be capable are horrendous.

However, even these days with modern evidence there can still be wrongful convictions, and that alone stays my mind, because even one persons being executed wrongly is one too many.

I do however think our prison system needs changing and I would support the reintroduction of life meaning life, and using prisoners like him for hard labour or some kind of life long indentured service where they dont get to spend their life living off the tax payer, but instead have to work every day of their sentence... it should be a punishment.

UnspiritualHome Sat 23-Mar-19 09:41:47

The killer is NOT a child he is 16 and if he can commit very adult crimes then he cannot be pardoned as a child

I haven't seen one single person suggesting that he should be pardoned.

Abra1de Sat 23-Mar-19 09:41:53

Saying that a particular murderer probably has severe mental health issues is not the same thing as saying that all people with mental health issues are potential murderers.

Haz1516 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:42:43

@echt Why is this case beyond horrific and irredeemable? Must I? Others may want to skip this post.

He took a sleeping 6 year old from her bed in her family home. In his own words, as soon as he saw her he knew what he wanted to do. He carried her out of her home, and as she started to wake up told her that he was her dad's friend and have her his coat to keep her warm. He then took her to a secluded spot, raped her, inflicting something like 117 separate injuries to her body and the worst damage to her genitals that the pathologist had ever seen. He then took off his clothes and threw them in the sea, returned home for a shower, then returned back to the scene of the crime another couple of times. He put the family through the ordeal of a drawn out court case, throughout which he lied and even tried to blame the dad's totally innocent girlfriend.

Later, after being found guilty, he admitted the whole thing and told a social worker that he'd found it hard to stop laughing during the trial. At the end of the judges sentencing remarks, he turned and smiled at Alesha's mother.

That is why I say it is beyond horrific and irredeemable. Why do we pay to keep such a person alive? How is it moral and right that this person maintains his right to breathe and live after having taken the life of another, a totally vulnerable child, in such a way?

I would never support capital punishment for almost all cases. But this is a case where he is guilty beyond doubt, and if he ever was released he would always be a danger.

ASAS Sat 23-Mar-19 09:43:26

Are we, society, EVER going to address and tackle the impact of violent porn?

This wee girl's mother, I can't get her out of my head.

americandream Sat 23-Mar-19 09:43:48

It pains me to say this, but I agree. Wasting 100s of 1000s of £ on this piece of filth is terrible. That money could be spent on things that we need, like doctors, nurses, police, schools, hospitals etc.

Bring in death row, like in the states. Give them 3 years to prove themselves innocent (most won't, as forensic testing is top notch, and it's very unlikely anyone would be executed when innocent.) When we had the death penalty 60 years ago and beyond, some people were executed and found to be innocent later, but that is unlikely to happen now.

This thing who killed this young girl was pure evil. A twisted, sick, perverted psychopathic murderer, and he doesn't deserve to breathe the same air as everyone else.

And there a few more the same as him who don't deserve to go on living.

AlexaShutUp Sat 23-Mar-19 09:43:54

What he did was abhorrent, and it is very upsetting to read about it. I understand the visceral reaction that you can have to such stories as a parent.

However, our justice system should not be based on emotional reactions. It would not be the mark of a civilised society to execute a teenage boy. No matter what he did.

Haz1516 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:46:28

@ASAS I totally agree. It makes me scared for the future how readily available extreme material is and the potential damage it is creating.

YouBumder Sat 23-Mar-19 09:46:55

tears keep rolling down my cheeks as I breastfeed my daughter and wonder what on earth the world has come to.

Although mercifully rare, there’s always been bad fucking bastards though. I remember Robert Black’s victims going missing and obviously before that there were the Moors murderers. The circs of this case are shocking due to the levels of brutality by one so young but it’s sadly not unique in terms of its wicked crimes over the years sad

Ledehe Sat 23-Mar-19 09:47:13

@AnnaMagnani please don't say he has undiagnosed autism or ADHD. He does not. This has all been thoroughly looked into. He has no mental illness.

He saw an "opportunity" to rape and murder a 6 year old. The worst case a crown prosecution staff member had seen in 40 years of work. Policemen in tears on the stand on what they saw.

He us currently in Polmont Young Offenders Institute in isolation. The other inmates have tried to gas him in his cell through the vents, this was before the trial started

Purplecatshopaholic Sat 23-Mar-19 09:48:06

This was an horrific crime and I think we all feel terribly for the little girls family and friends - its unimaginable what they are going through. I dont support the death penalty though and still dont. When he comes up for parole - if he ever does - his risk will be assessed - I doubt he will get out ever.

villamariavintrapp Sat 23-Mar-19 09:50:11

I don’t agree with capital punishment. It doesn’t work as a deterrent, it costs more (in appeals etc) than life imprisonment, mistakes happen and innocent people are killed, and it is applied disproportionately to people in society who can’t afford to defend themselves, young black men in the US, those with intellectual disabilities..

UnspiritualHome Sat 23-Mar-19 09:50:38

I can't take on board the idea that a night of terror for a monster like Aaron Campbell should mean he is given the right to possibly be free and enjoy any kind of existence after what he has done.

OP, you're talking about two different things. The point about the night - or indeed several weeks or months - of terror prior to death is that it is not something that we as a society should do to anyone because it is horrible, cold-blooded torture. We would be stooping to the killers' level, and indeed below it. The possibility of freedom is a totally different issue and the extremely strong likelihood is that Campbell will never be free - but if he is, it will be because people who know far more about it than we ever will do have decided that it is appropriate.

You also personalise this issue by applying it to Campbell. How about applying it to the likes of Judith Ward, Stefan Kiszko, Sally Clark or the Birmingham Six? And how do you factor in the fact that, even if we had the death penalty, we wouldn't apply it to a 16 year old anyway?

JaneEyre07 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:52:16

My DC were babies when Jamie Bulger was murdered, and I had nightmares for months after. I felt dreadful for bringing innocent lives into such a cruel cruel world. I completely get where you are coming from OP.

I personally think we need to address prisons and how prisoners are kept. I'd go for solitary confinement 24/7, no TVs, radios, gadgets, books, technology of any kind. Basic food rations, and no gyms/exercise equipment only manual labour doing gardening or cleaning. And mostly importantly, no contact with the outside world AT ALL for their entire sentence, visitors/letters/the works. They need to be left with their own thoughts to consider the consequences of their actions and make prison somewhere that no one ever wants to go. I think that would be far more effective than capital punishment.

Bluesmartiesarebest Sat 23-Mar-19 09:53:31

The reality is that he is likely to be attacked by other inmates because they hate child killers or abusers more than anyone else. He will have teeth knocked out etc as soon as any other prisoners get to him (which they will). I think it’s likely that he will kill himself which is better than capital punishment.

UnspiritualHome Sat 23-Mar-19 09:55:41

When we had the death penalty 60 years ago and beyond, some people were executed and found to be innocent later, but that is unlikely to happen now.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. People put extraordinary faith in forensic and scientific evidence, but it really is not as foolproof as people think. The records are littered with people who, since the abolition of the death penalty, have been wrongfully convicted on the basis of scientific evidence.

Nicknacky Sat 23-Mar-19 09:55:45

Jane That’s ridiculous and all it would achieve would be boredom which in turn would lead to unrest and violence and exacerbate mental heath issues. And then we let them out into the wider public?

Inliverpool1 Sat 23-Mar-19 09:57:37

JaneEyre07 - so in those conditions you realise they will literally go insane but not before trying to kill the guards

TooTrueToBeGood Sat 23-Mar-19 09:57:54

Every reasonable person is shocked by this case, and any other case involving the murder of a child or indeed any other human being. I find it distasteful that you are making it so much about you and your feelings. You're not the only person with a young child and being so doesn't give you some special relationship with this case nor does it give your opinion any more weight. You're implying that you somehow get this more than the rest of us. Just how offensive do you think that is?

UnspiritualHome Sat 23-Mar-19 10:00:15

JaneEyre07, think about whether you would want to work at the prison incarcerating people for life in the conditions you describe. These would be people who have been put into a position where they have no incentive whatsoever to behave or reform, and for whom it would be impossible to impose any greater punishment than the one they are already undergoing. They would have all the time in the world to plot how to get their revenge. Would you want to be their nearest potential victim?

Cerseilannisterinthesnow Sat 23-Mar-19 10:00:29

Is his girlfriend still standing by him?

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