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To think this absolutely is homophobic

(613 Posts)
HuntIdeas Thu 21-Mar-19 03:58:31

Muslim families have successfully argued for Birmingham primary schools to stop the No Outsiders programme

"Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have. It's not about being homophobic... that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic."

AIBU to think:
1. This absolutely is a homophobic thing to say
2. There are plenty of places in the world where you would get stoned for stating you didn’t believe in Islam!

Hopefully this link works:

brizzlemint Thu 21-Mar-19 04:13:25

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IdaBWells Thu 21-Mar-19 04:16:25

Also many parents who aren't Muslim think Primary school is too young to be talking about these topics.

Pinkyyy Thu 21-Mar-19 04:25:47

There are lots of places in the world where you'd be stoned for being gay.

HappyPunky Thu 21-Mar-19 04:42:23

That attitude is homophobic but aspects of the programme are inappropriate for the intended age group. It's generally accepted that you answer questions when they come up.

I think at that age I'd much prefer for there to be a male teacher who is matter of fact about his husband for example and I think it should be more mainstream and part of life. One of DD's favourite programmes is hey duggee. There is a couple in that called Mr and Mr Crab. At 4 it's better to just say "yes, two men can love each other and get married, so can two women" but some kids might not have reached the age of questioning about relationships, babies etc.

When it was first in the news there was an error on the power point presentation on the schools website which gave me the impression that they don't have the correct information about the equality act which is pretty huge considering that's what they are supposed to be teaching.

coolwalking Thu 21-Mar-19 05:36:39

"Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have"

Thank goodness the law disagrees with these hateful people. These children will be taught that homosexuality is wrong. How can they bring children up in a society which is so at odds with their beliefs?

sam221 Thu 21-Mar-19 05:42:58

I have to say I am somewhat perplexed why their hate filled rhetoric is being allowed to be pandered to in such a way. It is totally homophobic and the schools/council should not have yielded to their prehistoric viewpoints.
I am loosley a muslim and think this type of mentality is dangerous-it spreads a message of hate. If children are taught from a young age about all choices, then they will understand that love is love. They will learn acceptance and maybe be more open with their own sexuality.
I feel that some of these parents could with a lesson in understanding and kindness. Maybe even tolerance?
There is too much hate in this world for perceived 'otherness',surely children should be taught about being tolerant and open minded?

SoloD Thu 21-Mar-19 05:50:00

Yes it definitely is homophobic.

All they are teaching children is that Gay people exist and they should not be harassed or bullied. It's not promoting homosexuality it is teaching equality and inclusiveness which I think is a good lesson for primary aged children.

Deeply saddened by this attitude. But definitely not just the Muslim community which has a problem here. Many fundamentalist Christians like Andrea Leadsom are also against teaching equality.

FudgeBrownie2019 Thu 21-Mar-19 05:54:45

I do think it is homophobic to say "we don't accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have" and I think it's worse that parents would actively campaign against a part of the education system designed to help their children become more tolerant and less ignorant adults.

I also think that whilst parents may believe they can control how their child turns out, shielding a child from homosexuality won't prevent the child from growing up to be a homosexual. It might make the child less honest with their parents about their sexual preferences, but it won't actually stamp out the gay.

that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic
This is tripe. All Religion is a choice; Muslims choose to follow their teachings and choose to live their lives in a certain way. If they feel strongly enough about it they can opt out. Being gay doesn't work in the same way and to assume it does is ignorant in the extreme.

coolwalking Thu 21-Mar-19 05:57:02

As a gay person I don't want to be tolerated.

Being tolerated implies I am doing something wrong.

Pandering to Muslims is more PC than standing up for gay people now.

VashtaNerada Thu 21-Mar-19 06:07:38

It is homophobia 100%. It is completely age-appropriate for children to be taught that families come in all shapes and sizes, and sometimes they have two mums or two dads. I’m a teacher and I have no problem whatsoever in telling that to the children I teach (5/6 year olds). It is completely legal and in line with the Equality Act and guidance from Ofsted. I would be in the wrong if I pretended gay people didn’t exist.

Gwenhwyfar Thu 21-Mar-19 06:28:02

" If they feel strongly enough about it they can opt out."

Unless you come across someone who believes apostasy is punishable by death.

OohYeBelter47 Thu 21-Mar-19 06:28:36

"*Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have. It's not about being homophobic... that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic*."

^ Definitely homophobic. What he said would be like saying if you don't believe/agree with Islam then it shouldn't be spoken about in schools (even in RE), i.e not give it any air time.

Gwenhwyfar Thu 21-Mar-19 06:30:03

I think there's a difference between a person or a religious group's opinion, which can be taught at Sunday School and the equivalents in other religions, and what must be taught in our schools. What is taught in schools, definitely all schools that receive public money, but I'd include private schools as well, must reflect the law of the land.

Boysey45 Thu 21-Mar-19 06:40:44

The schools need to make a stand against these silly people.Its behaviour like this that stokes up hatred against Muslims and isolates them more.

Mummadeeze Thu 21-Mar-19 06:41:43

Of course it is homophobic to say they morally don’t accept same sex relationships. It could be classed as discrimination and bigotry too. Teaching children narrow mindedness from a young age is sad and morally wrong and it should be illegal. Everything about this makes me furious.

Bagpuss5 Thu 21-Mar-19 06:45:20

I wonder how other countries get round this.
You get the impression that, say, in the Netherlands everyone is happy and get on well. How do you deal with these differences, not just muslim views, there must be anti abortionists and other religion guided views that go against the country's laws.

gamerwidow Thu 21-Mar-19 06:47:04

It’s homophobic and their comparison is bogus.
People have a right not to believe in Islam for example but it you say believing in Islam is unnatural and immoral that then becomes Islamophobic.
Similarly these protesters have right not to be in a homosexual relationship but they don’t get to say every who is in one is unnatural and immoral.
It’s disgusting that Birmingham council are pandering to this out right bigotry. Gay people exist, they’re not a dirty secret to be hidden from children.

JugzyMalone Thu 21-Mar-19 06:49:04

In order of importance in this country

: TRAs
: Muslims
: Gay people

The ones on top are allowed to crush the others' rights apparently

Serin Thu 21-Mar-19 06:53:29

I have never understood the use of the term "phobic" on the end of homophobic. Surely it should be "ist" as with racist?
But I think you are right, it is totally at odds with tolerance and respect for others.

Shelby2010 Thu 21-Mar-19 06:56:01

It’s shockingly homophobic. And it’s not like saying you don’t believe in Islam, it’s like saying that you think Islam should be made illegal.

There will be children in that school with homosexual parents / siblings / aunts / uncles. How dare someone stand outside their school telling them that it’s immoral.

Next they’ll be saying that they don’t believe in equality between the sexes and that shouldn’t be taught either.

MindyStClaire Thu 21-Mar-19 07:12:08

There will also be children who grow up to realise they are gay. They deserve to hear at school that that's ok, especially if they won't hear it at home.

N0rdicStar Thu 21-Mar-19 07:12:42

Then they would be homophobic too Ida.

Why is primary too young, it’s the realities of life.Many people are gay, many children have gay parents. Mental health issues within the gay teenage population is high ditto the numbers who experience bullying. If there was better education in primary children wouldn’t go on to bully or feel crap about being gay. Believe you me homophobic language is present in primary schools and bullying.

It’s is also about respect. My gay atheist son had to sit through lessons about Islam and Christianity in primary. I wouldn’t have dreamt of pulling him out or protesting even though I disagree. My son has to learn about Islam now in secondary, it upsets him as he knows Islam doesn’t think he should exist and some Muslims would like to see him dead. Why should he have to learn about Islam and Christianity if Muslim and Christian children don’t have to learn about him?

I think it’s appalong that the program has been suspended, what message does that give out to children?

brizzlemint Thu 21-Mar-19 07:17:10

Why should he have to learn about Islam and Christianity if Muslim and Christian children don’t have to learn about him?

That's the best point, though appalling that you should be in a position to make it. Everybody should learn acceptance.

rightreckoner Thu 21-Mar-19 07:18:06

This is the natural result of faith schools.

I don’t agree with the Muslim parents on the particular matter of homosexual relationships. But if they let Stonewall or Allsorts into my kids school I’d be manning the barricades with these Muslim parents. So I think there’s a forced liberality which is problematic for our society. It’s unacceptable to say you don’t agree with the current thinking - and that doesn’t feel right either.

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