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To change primary schools for this?

(97 Posts)
Litttlepinkegg Wed 20-Mar-19 06:32:21

Dd in year one at school 1
she’s had been doing ok, she is friendly with lots of people, school has good reputation.
But class sizes are very big (32 in dd’s Case) and very uneven she is one of 10 girls. Despite ofsted outstanding school is not doing great , results declining. Dd complains that it’s noisy in class and hard to concentrate.
The boys are all quite lively and some strong characters. My dd has had issues with a couple of the boys. This week it’s esculated and in the last 3 days one boy has hurt her over 8 times, grabbing her, trying to punch her face, pinning her down.
She was hysterical when I picked her up from after school club.
Each occasion I’ve had to contact teacher. Yesterday when I called she said she flagged up to head but had forgot to call me.
Dd says she likes it but can be very upset by the time I’m picking her up wanting change class, leave school.
I feel like she’s got a bad year where the teachers are struggling to have any control. Dh thinks this with always be the case as it was the same last year and obviously this is her year until she goes secondary.
Do I bite the bullet now?
I’ve have 2 schools to visit that have said they could fit her in

Gizlotsmum Wed 20-Mar-19 06:35:46

Is it a one class year? Have the school indicated what they are doing to protect your daughter? I would ignore the declining results but I couldn't leave my daughter at a school where she is not safe. Look around the other schools and get a feel for them. Talk to parents at them if you can and see how they handle bullying.

Puddlet Wed 20-Mar-19 06:36:54

I think you should visit the other schools and see what they're like. I've had to move 2 kids at that age due to house moves and it was a good age to move. There were no problems making new friends.

Litttlepinkegg Wed 20-Mar-19 06:38:19

Two classes of 32 with 2/3 boys to girls in each so overall year is very boy heavy.
The two schools I’m looking at have smaller class sizes and are more evenly mixed.

ThriftyMcThrifty Wed 20-Mar-19 06:41:19

Yes I’d move her, she’s got a long time left at primary, she’s barely started. It sounds like the other schools are promising - visit, and pick the best. She will soon settle in an make friends.

Slippersandacuppa Wed 20-Mar-19 06:43:01

I moved ds for this reason (except there was no physical issue - poor thing). Lots of disruption in a massive class. Group punishments because there just wasn’t time to figure out who had done what. No time for teachers to explain something a different way so he was snapped at for asking for help so he just stopped asking. And so on,

He had tummy aches every morning and couldn’t eat breakfast. We made the decision to move him over the last weekend of the school holidays going into year 5. The difference in him is huge. He eats breakfast, no tummy aches, he comes home and tells me what he’s done. He was very close to his friends so I thought it would take him a while to settle but he hasn’t looked back. I’ve had several comments that he’s like a different child. And he’s enjoying learning again rather than getting through the day.

The previous school was outstanding with 32 in his boy heavy class. Really, really lovely teachers but in an impossible situation sad

Our daughter is also moving at the end of this year for the same reasons.

Good luck.

Divgirl2 Wed 20-Mar-19 06:44:12

I'd move her. It sounds like she's getting swallowed up in the chaos.

namechange1796 Wed 20-Mar-19 06:48:06

I’d move her - sounds like a no brainier to me but I fully understand that actually going through with it is a tough call. For reference we’ve moved our children due to moving house and very recently our yr8 ds because the relationship between us and his school had broken down (long story but final straw was their reaction to our yr11 ds being victim of an unprovoked nasty assault in school). So, so glad we moved yr8 ds - whilst he wasn’t unhappy at the other school he is sooo much happier at the new one!

Litttlepinkegg Wed 20-Mar-19 06:48:31

Interesting slippers that it’s the same situation. Most other parents don’t seem to think it’s an issue but when I went in for book day I could see how much the the teachers and support staff were struggling 22 boys in one class chaos!

rededucator Wed 20-Mar-19 06:49:20

Most teachers in my experience cite class size as the biggest influence on behaviour management. The difference between the feel of a class of 26 and 32 is massive. I'd move her if the option is there.

Crockof Wed 20-Mar-19 06:52:44

Not all boys are strong and boisterous. I move my quiet and shy boy for similar reasons, my only regret was that I didn't do it sooner. I agree small classes are important

SavoyCabbage Wed 20-Mar-19 06:53:38

Yes move her. I'm a supply teacher so in different schools all of the time. You do get classes where there is a lot of physical misbehaviour.

Often just a few dc causing it and the other dc become almost immune to it. Then as someone coming in, me, it can be quite shocking, especially as I will have been in another school the day before.

Go and look round and then make the decision yourself, quickly and concisely without involving your dd. Take charge of the decision so she doesn't feel worried about it.

UnspiritualHome Wed 20-Mar-19 06:56:11

I'd agree with moving her. However, unless you are pulling her out immediately I'd suggest an urgent email to the head flagging up what is really a major safeguarding issue given what has happened to your child. For the sake of other parents, I'd also suggest alerting Ofsted - it's ridiculous how long they leave supposedly outstanding schools before reinspecting.

BigFatGiant Wed 20-Mar-19 06:57:11

32 to a class is ridiculous. Will the class sizes reduce as they get older or is this it? I would definitely opt for a school with a better teacher:student ratio if you have one that can fit her in. Ofstead reports are pretty meaningless when you have 32 five year olds cramed into a room and only 1/2 adults to control them.

Helspopje Wed 20-Mar-19 06:59:11

Gosh - sounds like us!
You aren’t in SE London are you at a small church school?
I have a v quiet boy in a highly boy skewed y1 class and thinking of moving him as he is getting repeatedly squashed

My mum who was a former infant headmistress and Ed psych agreed that it isn’t ideal to have such a ‘lively’ class as my son’s and suggested I suggest they do 2 composite classes with a better gender/personality balance as that’s what she would’ve done if it were her school. School wasn’t interested as they said the parents would complain if their older aged group child was put into composite with a lower age group. I’m from a rural location where composite classes are commonplace- totally unfounded concern and, done well with good differentiated teaching by ability rather than year group, composite classes can really bring children on both academically and socially/behaviourally.

Slippersandacuppa Wed 20-Mar-19 07:00:18

Yes, it sounds like a very similar situation. He was just lost in the middle of it all. But he didn’t have the added stress of bullying. He genuinely loved all of his friends there. He’s out of the house for an extra 2.5 hours now but doesn’t seem to care.

My youngest’s class is the same. 32 in reception.

I don’t think DH believed me until he helped out on our daughter’s school trip and said it was ridiculous (and her teacher is fab). She couldn’t talk to all of the children at the same time and basically had to march them quickly around somewhere. I’m not sure they understood what they were supposed to be doing. I think he was shocked at seeing that many children together. But we’ve been lucky that our classes don’t seem to have had the levels of disruption of some - there has been violence towards teachers, pinning down of other children etc.

Learning should be fun - the government has some serious changes to make...

Sleepsoon7 Wed 20-Mar-19 07:15:10

Check out the other schools. If you like them move your child now (or arrange for after Easter hols if you think the situation is not urgent). Moving them ASAP allows time to settle in and make a few friends they can see over Easter to build up friendships. In the meantime email your current School head with your concerns / what has happened and cc the School Safeguarding officer (usually a teacher or TA where we are). Put it all in writing to the School. Good luck but trust your feelings on this one.

brizzlemint Wed 20-Mar-19 07:15:44

I'd move her - the issue isn't the 22 boys (who can behave) but the behaviour management skills of the teacher. Hard classes can, and do, behave and you don't want your DD suffering while the teacher improves their skill set.

Oblomov19 Wed 20-Mar-19 07:19:32

32 is the norm in most Surrey schools! If the teacher can't control the class, then there are major problems, across the school and clearly leadership problems.

Litttlepinkegg Wed 20-Mar-19 07:26:20

We’ve been without a head for 18 months one starting in sept now

ALannisterInDebt Wed 20-Mar-19 07:28:08

Yes, I'd move her without hesitation.

Litttlepinkegg Wed 20-Mar-19 07:30:51

Thank you all arranging visits ASAP.
I am hesitant I think because we worked really hard to afford to move into the very small catchment for this school and it’s still held up locally as best in the area. But it hasn’t been inspected since 2011 and results have massively dropped.
Big decision

Pallando Wed 20-Mar-19 07:34:27

Yes move. And if you are not happy with the schools response with regards to safeguarding your daughter you can raise a concern with Ofsted (you are supposed to escalate to the governors first, but I would be tempted to miss this step).

One of the issues with "Outstanding" schools is that they are exempt from regular inspection, which means they will only inspect if results fall or if concerns are raised to them.

Slippersandacuppa Wed 20-Mar-19 07:38:30

Same as us. Moved here for the school, which is widely regarded as excellent. Hasn’t had ofsted inspection since 2005.

HidingFromDD Wed 20-Mar-19 07:44:32

I'd move her. DD2 was in a similar situation, 12 girls and 50 boys, so classes were more lively. In our situation, it actually wasn't the boys who were the issue, generally lively but lovely. The girls, however, had a 'queen bee and wannabees' with one queen bee in each class. They basically circled around the rest of the girls deciding who would be ostracised that day (obviously it took a while to work out exactly what was going on). With such a small number of girls in each class there were no other friendship groups to join. We left it until Y4 to move her and I really wish we'd just done it as soon as we'd noticed any issues (outstanding school, huge competition for places and DD1 was perfectly happy there)

Happygolucky009 Wed 20-Mar-19 07:44:38

Please move her, dc class was 32 mostly boys. Change of leadership after y1. We stayed as we really liked the secondary school it linked to.

But we didn't know how bad it was as eldest normalised it and learnt to adapt, bits came out more than 2 years later by whuch time 2nd child was settled in the school. The head has been largely ineffective, the staff turnover has been high, Ofsted rating was outstanding now requires improvement, the school have rejected the findings of the poor Ofsted report (I think Ofsted were very insightful!). Behavior is now on the floor, but most of the boys have now left, class size is 22 but this includes 2 sen and 2 with significant behavioral issues when together and now to add insult to injury we are unlikely to get a school place in the secondary, based upon this years allocations.

If you are having doubts follow your gut instinct!

MrsKCastle Wed 20-Mar-19 07:46:56

I'm curious as to why both classes in the year group are over the official infant class size. KS1 classes should be capped at 30, and while there are some circumstances where exceptions can be made, there are strict rules. It seems strange for a ks1 year group to have 4 children for whom exceptions are made. Particularly if, as you say, there are other schools in the area with spaces. Have the classes been the same size since the start of reception?

Boysey45 Wed 20-Mar-19 07:47:23

I'd move her ASAP, you cant be having her getting hurt, hows she going to learn anything?.
When I'd moved her I'd write to the initial school and say how concerned I was as well. Something needs doing, for all the others as well.

HexagonalBattenburg Wed 20-Mar-19 07:52:43

Wouldn't worry too much about results dropping - the junior school my kids' (infant) school feeds into has had a real drop in reading scores this last year - they're a cohort that have been challenging to get progress made since they arrived in nursery so while the resident league table watchers (egged on by the rival school who poaches pupils at any chance possible) have been freaking out - I've got faith in the governance and head there that it is just a very blip year.

I would consider moving her for the behaviour angle - if it's a difficult year group (and you do get some year groups where just the combination of personalities, planetary alignment and everything seem to coincide to make what would just normally be a few lively characters into an absolutely tricky as hell bunch to control) it's going to remain so for the entire time they're together - the boy-heavy part wouldn't worry me (one of my girls is in a very boy heavy class which works to our favour as they're less likely to be drawn into her nonsense when she starts acting up and will just tell her to quit it!), but the way they're interacting in combination together would do.

I moved mine at the end of their reception year - agonised over it as it was going to mean two moves during primary school (because we moved to an infant school) but to be honest, when I went to look around this school that happened to have spaces - I came out and cried because I just saw my kids fitting in there perfectly - and it was definitely the right decision for us... so much so that I later became a governor there. School is heading very rapidly toward an Outstanding rating (Ofsted are due back to reinspect to see if it gets it this year) - despite me paying fuck all attention to inspection reports when I did the school move.

Pallandro - Ofsted won't touch a complaint unless it's been through the school complaints process. I looked into it extensively when we moved (didn't dare rock the boat while we were there too much to be honest) and then we were in the situation where, as we were no longer a family at the school, and the school was an academy - they just bloody well ignored it anyway in the end (but the Head has been manoeuvred out anyway thankfully)

applesandpears33 Wed 20-Mar-19 07:54:15

If you are thinking of moving your daughter, then some other parents are probably thinking the same thing too. It is likely that as time goes on more and more girls will be withdrawn from that year group. I'd move your daughter now before the year group becomes even more boy heavy.

Litttlepinkegg Wed 20-Mar-19 07:58:56

The queen bee syndrome seems to already be starting although dd seems unaware other mums have been upset by things. A couple got in on appeal the prior to reception starting and another boy joined before Xmas not sure what the story is there.

hoodiemum Wed 20-Mar-19 08:04:27

I'd think about moving her if other options seem good. Boy-heavy classes are tricky - often get worse as time goes on. Kids leave, new ones come, but the school has to allocate places according to strict criteria so can't attempt to even up the gender balance.

Kungfupanda67 Wed 20-Mar-19 08:06:38

My son’s in a yr q1 class like this, they seem to have put all of the loud, difficult, boisterous boys (my son being one of them) in the head of year’s class, along with a load of quiet, well behaved kids. I often wonder how much the well behaved kids are missing out on while they’re being over shadowed by all the loud boys

Pallando Wed 20-Mar-19 08:10:07

HB - Ofsted may well not do anything about a specific single concern raised, but if it's part of a pattern, or us viewed alongside falling results they may decide that they need to come in for an inspection. In any case, a child being attacked 8 times, being pinned down etc is pretty serious, and if the OP doesn't feel she can raise the issue with the governors she can raise an anonymous concern with Ofsted (which will at least be recorded).

averythinline Wed 20-Mar-19 08:12:52

you seem concerned about the 'excellent' past results of the school....they are irrelevant if it isn't working for your daughter....
and not that meaningful anyway...

go and look at the other schools - during a working day - more than once if they'll let you.....and see if you can see your daughter there...
small classes are not the be all of everything - and financially can mean less resources...

check if there is any effect on secondary if they run feeder school system in your area ...and you're planning to stay in teh area (although admissions systems can change)

she has a long time to go in primary - If you like the other schools move her...

ATrainSeat Wed 20-Mar-19 08:17:47

I taught a class like this. Absolutely move her. Although behaviour management was less of an issue, a small group were consistently disruptive and managing this took up a lot of my time. If there’s no head to back the teacher up, it will be even worse. Some of the kids is that class barely got a look in and I just felt awful about it but there was nothing I could do. I remember thinking if I ever have a child in a class like this, I’d move them. The class dynamics have such a huge impact.

LittleCandle Wed 20-Mar-19 08:45:56

Definitely move! I moved DD2 from our local school at the end of primary 5 (Scotland) because the school were doing nothing to help her with dyslexia and she was being stuck for another year with the shit job share teacher who was poor at the job but was too young to retire and they couldn't sack her. I moved DD2 to the local Catholic school and just didn't bother telling the other school she wasn't going back. That was a courtesy they didn't deserve and it was all the same local authority, so it didn't matter.

It was the making of DD2. She went from a class of 33 (it was a huge year, so 2 classes of 33) into a mixed P6/7 of 22. The whole ethos of the school was different and she was getting help with her dyslexia on the first day.

Later, after moving house when she was in secondary school, I moved her from the crap local school to one just a 20 minute train ride away for her Highers. So well worth it both times.

Litttlepinkegg Wed 20-Mar-19 18:35:25

Thank you all had to see the deputy head as boy hurt dd with a pen today in front of teacher which they put him in isolation for but he’s back tomo in class as normal 🤔

stopfuckingshoutingatme Wed 20-Mar-19 19:10:05

Visit the others and see how they feel
Those boisterous kids are going to get worse . Not better

tor8181 Wed 20-Mar-19 19:22:12

big class sizes failed mine at age 6,hes a end of july baby so youngest of the class,reception and y1(didnt do y1 as repeated reception) was ok but in y2 they put him straight in to a y2 class and not y1 they then put y2/y3 together and there was 45 kids in a class,as he had disabilities and couldnt read or write he was swallowed up and just left to play all day,he was non verbal at the time and i only found out in christmas term when he started speaking

as we are a small village in the welsh valleys there was no where else to go(next village ages away)so we home educate now

Litttlepinkegg Thu 21-Mar-19 07:07:42

I did raise the issue of unbalanced year and disruptive kids which went down like a lead balloon deputy head actually said kids will be excitible it’s in their nature when I said the teachers seemed more like referees. The only solution would be to put up and shut up or move schools.
Waiting on our preferred option calling us today to see my up viewing and the council are calling me back about another 3 schools I’m checking if they have space in year 1 group.

zingally Thu 21-Mar-19 07:46:09

Speaking as an infant school teacher myself... That class size is illegal. The limit is 30 for KS1 and Reception. The only exception would be for a child in the care system who has been placed in the area. They HAVE to be admitted, regardless of class size.

It MIGHT be worth looking around, with a view to moving your daughter. However, I would quietly discuss this with school first. It may be that they hadn't realised how often your child is getting bothered. Just bare in mind however, that another school might not necessarily be any better in that regard.

If you do decide to move her, Yr1 is a good time to do it. She's still little, friendship groups are still very fluid, and she'll quickly make friends else where. You just need to make the move decisively and quickly. Don't leave it up to her. Tell her you're moving her, and do it. She's far too little for the pressure of an "it's up to you... Do you want to move schools?" talk. And don't mention the fact that the move is down to the problems in her class, otherwise all she'll get is the message that "mummy will always sort out all my problems with other people", which, even though she's still little, isn't really a message that will do her any good in the long term.

crimsonlake Thu 21-Mar-19 07:46:26

This is a bit like moving house, you never know what your neighbours are going to be like. You can move schools and could encounter the same problems, class size may grow and it can only take 1 child to ruin a lovely class. That child may already be there or may arrive after your daughter. I work as a supply teacher and have seen it all. If the teacher is dealing with behaviour issues all day that really eats in to teaching and learning time and your child is really missing out. I had to be very strict with a class yesterday, every sentence I spoke at least 5 children were attempting to interrupt me. The class teacher was giving out marbles to each child every time she was not interrupted as a reward. I could not teach them anything if I spent my time doing that, children should not be rewarded for actually following the class rules, it is getting ridiculous.

Litttlepinkegg Sat 23-Mar-19 19:46:14

Thank you all I’m looking around a school on Monday.
Dd is adamant she will not be changing school I’ve glossed over it with her but she’s caught the tail end of a couple of conversations so she knows it could possibly happen.
If this school on Monday turns out to be a better option I have a friend with dd in the same year group who has offered to host a party for dd to meet her new class mates in advance so I’m hoping that reassures dd if it does look like it’s the best option.
We also have parents evening on Monday night so it will be an interesting day.

Litttlepinkegg Sat 23-Mar-19 19:46:43

Informative day rather

Isleepinahedgefund Sat 23-Mar-19 20:03:14

The issue here is not the other children but the lack of management of behaviour in the classroom. The deputy head’s reaction would sway me towards moving schools.

Of course you won’t know what the new school is really like until you get there.

Funny, the yr 1 in my school is very boy heavy too, 120 intake and still 10 girls to 20 boys in each class. They can’t help who comes through the door of cours, but they can manage things appropriately. They changed the classes around when current yr 1 moved up from reception, in part because of special needs INA provision requirements but also took the opportunity to move some of the kids away from each other where it was clear there was an issue. First time they’ve ever done it and It’s worked really well, definitely less problems all round now.

FizzyGreenWater Sat 23-Mar-19 20:07:38

Move her!!!

She's hardly started in year 1, it just isn't worth sticking it out for the sake of existing friendships - they are just not a consideration at that age. It doesn't sound like a good year group however and that DOES matter - I've definitely noticed that different year groups have a 'vibe' which as often as not does carry through. My childrens' year groups are all very different and always have been.

RavenousBabyButterfly Sat 23-Mar-19 20:26:58

Move her. Some year groups can be a nightmare while others in the same school are ok. It doesn't sound like the school is handling the behaviour well either. If they haven't got a grip on it in Y1 heaven help them by the time they hit Y4 and start developing an attitude!

SofaSurfer20 Sat 23-Mar-19 20:31:59

Go in and lose your shit. My DD is in yr1 and something happened with one of the boys in the year above, little twat, and I kicked off at school. It's sorted now and DD is back to loving school

ballsdeep Sat 23-Mar-19 20:59:37

32 - 35 to a class is the norm here with Jo additional support.
My son was in a class with 22 rowdy, boisterous boys and it was hell. The majority were disruptive and fed off each other. If I could I'd move your child because through primary it never ever got better. In fact as they got older the worse they became

ballsdeep Sat 23-Mar-19 21:01:06

And fwiw it wasn't the teachers management style, she was amazing with every other year. This particular class were horrendous. The parents didn't care, constantly on WhatsApp and Facebook sagging teachers off etc

dirtystinkyrats Sat 23-Mar-19 21:10:10

I'd also like to know how these schools are ending up with so many classes over 30 in infants?

Litttlepinkegg Sun 24-Mar-19 18:59:55

Thank you all I’m talking myself in and out of moving/staying out a lot atm but ultimately I think I’ll know when I look round the other school tomo especially as it’s parent evening tomo night straight after so I will be able to make a direct comparison. Dh is definitely thinking a class of 22 would be ideal for dd but obviously we need to really question whether the new school would be better as don’t want to disrupt dd for something worse than what we have.

Litttlepinkegg Mon 25-Mar-19 09:44:23

Dd was feeling ill on Friday before school but I sent her anyway. This morning she was so convincing that she was genuinely ill but now I’ve kept her off she’s suddenly peeled up. If I mention school she’s ill and teary again 😟

TwoleftUggs Mon 25-Mar-19 10:01:16

It’s entirely possible even in a ‘good’ school to have a disruptive yeargroup. DDs primary had one, and in their case as it was a one-form entry there would be literally nowhere to move to other than a different school.
Your dd is so young and has many potentially miserable years left at primary, I’d be on those other schools like a shot. Good luck.

Litttlepinkegg Mon 25-Mar-19 15:04:54

Thank you. We are really down to one possible realistic option and have visited it this afternoon.
I thought I’d know one way or another but I’m more confused!
Dh loves it especially the small class sizes. Some aspects I liked head was hard to read. The children seemed well behaved and polite. The head and even reception staff knew all the kids by name which wouldn’t happen at current school.
They could take dd straight away and she could pick which class she wanted to go into.

FizzyGreenWater Mon 25-Mar-19 15:11:42

The head and even reception staff knew all the kids by name which wouldn’t happen at current school.

I am shock - not so much that they knew their names but that the staff at your current school don't!!!!

This is really a no brainer to me. The only 'plus point' for your DD at the current school seems to be that she's already there and familiar with it. Which is just not even a plus point as it's that very class dynamic which is the issue (so for example if she loved her class and it was ace, but you were thinking of moving her because the results were terrible or the commute was dire, the dilemma would be real, iyswim). In a month, she'll have forgotten that class and will be completely immersed in her new one. It's the ideal age to move. There is literally no advantage to keeping her in the current school and lots of disadvantages.

Smaller classes too - I would move her in a shot.

Litttlepinkegg Mon 25-Mar-19 16:06:14

My head is banging think this decision will take a few days at least I know it seems like a no brainer but all we ever wanted was the school dd is in to give it up seems strange even if we are not happy with it.

kittens876 Mon 25-Mar-19 16:14:43

I moved my son due to problems like this. Turned into bullying and nothing was ever done. He went to a new school for year 3 and has never been happier. I’d move, after seeing schools and asking how they would handle situations like this xx

WeepingWillowWeepingWino Mon 25-Mar-19 16:21:33

I would move her.

This is her current school:

No head for 18 months
no Oftsed for 8 years
results declining
classes too big
top heavy with boys
violent behaviour not being dealt with
DD coming out in tears
HT not knowing children's names

when you look at it like that, surely there is no reason to stay!

Lizzie48 Mon 25-Mar-19 16:27:00

You should definitely move her. It won't improve for her where she is now. The reason for my pessimism is that I was a child in a disruptive class and I hated it. What tended to happen was that the whole class would be punished for the troublemakers' bad behaviour.

The bullying sounds awful, your DD shouldn't have to put up with it. She's young enough to adjust to a new class.

Yura Mon 25-Mar-19 17:07:00

It seems to be a common problem with ofsted outstanding primarys - not inspected in ages, nothing done as they are outstanding, more and more people moving into catchment, houseprices exploding, results falling, next ofsted inspection „good“ if they are lucky, house prices dropping massively

septembersunshine Mon 25-Mar-19 18:17:46

I would forget about the historic 'excellent'. Clearly its no longer that and the fact is your dc is unhappy.

Just go and see the other schools and I think you will have a feeling which one would suit your dc the best. Personally I don't think her current school will improve soon and her memories of her time at primary school will not be that nice. Her happiness is everything.

happinessischocolate Mon 25-Mar-19 19:00:37

My Ds was in a year of 2 classes of 30 with 22 boys in each class to 8 girls. The teachers had complete control and the girls were able to stand up for themselves. So don't blame the high boy count for the bad behaviour,the teacher simply aren't coping with the number.

Also the head teacher knew every child's name by the end of the first week in reception.

My kids are teenagers now and never changed schools (except to move up) but I wouldn't have kept them in your DDs school, no chance.

happinessischocolate Mon 25-Mar-19 19:04:49

don’t want to disrupt dd for something worse than what we have.

From what you've said I'm not sure how another school could be worse than what she's putting up with already

drspouse Mon 25-Mar-19 19:08:31

Schools with a good reputation for being academic are often quite "meh" for pastoral care and similar from what I've seen on school tours and from friends' experiences.
Re the class sizes it's possible that two children were wrongly not allocated in the first place (siblings, measured distance wrongly maybe?) and LAC get priority even if the school is full AIUI.
I can totally see why you chose the school initially but it does sound like it's not what it's cracked up to be.

bellinisurge Mon 25-Mar-19 20:05:34

Class size and boy majority is not really a reason to change schools. My dd had this in primary. Unmanaged violence against her is.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino Mon 25-Mar-19 20:10:17

Yes, it’s all these things together, one or two of them would be fine.

Litttlepinkegg Tue 26-Mar-19 07:10:50

Thank you all this thread has been really helpful. Never easy making a life changing decision this will have huge consequences for dd’s And my toddler ds’ futures. I went to dd’s Parents evening last night and she is excelling in all areas. This helped my decision in a strange way as if she’s doing so well academically when she’s struggling to concentrate in class then the calmer environment of the new school should mean she does even better.
I’ve got huge deadlines in the next two weeks and Dh is starting a more senior role on Monday so it’s chaos atm but I’m planning to have change of school organised so dd can start mid- May hopefully.

Litttlepinkegg Tue 26-Mar-19 07:12:41

This really helped me thank you taking my emotions out of the equation it really is a no-brainer
*This is her current school:

No head for 18 months
no Oftsed for 8 years
results declining
classes too big
top heavy with boys
violent behaviour not being dealt with
DD coming out in tears
HT not knowing children's names

when you look at it like that, surely there is no reason to stay!*

WhereIsMyTVRemote Tue 26-Mar-19 07:21:36

Op ignore Ofsted and go with what is best for your child. Self confidence is better than grades.

WhereIsMyTVRemote Tue 26-Mar-19 07:32:25

I also second the top heavy boys shouldn't be a reason. It's unmanaged behaviour. One of mine has 75% boys in their year and it's a wonderful year, the best the school have ever had according to the long term staff. The other has a bit heavy year and it's never been a problem.
By the same reckoning you could say girl heavy years would be a problem in teenage times but that would be generalising and unfair.

WhereIsMyTVRemote Tue 26-Mar-19 07:32:47

*boy heavy not bit

Litttlepinkegg Tue 26-Mar-19 18:51:23

Dd has a taster session at the new school next week and have organised a play date for her with new class mates.
Current school seem to have stepped up massively all of a sudden with regards to the boy hurting dd but im still thinking the move would be best xx

Litttlepinkegg Tue 26-Mar-19 18:51:46

Sorry added the kisses by mistake 😂😂

WeepingWillowWeepingWino Tue 26-Mar-19 18:52:16

That sounds great, I hope your DD enjoys her taster and play dates.

Litttlepinkegg Mon 01-Apr-19 12:07:25

Dd’s Taster afternoon is this week now.
Things at current school have been ok. The boy was put on a monitoring system and did not hurt dd last week.
Dh is mightly pissed off as on Friday the boy was given The headteachers award as he had behaved this week. According to dd it was because he hadn’t hit anyone all week. I’ve got mixed feelings about this I do think that rewarding his better behaviour was a good idea but not the headteachers award as it’s sending out a strange message to the other children I think.

Litttlepinkegg Wed 03-Apr-19 22:02:51


Youngandfree Wed 03-Apr-19 22:12:19

I don’t think the fact that they are boys is the reason the teachers are struggling 🤨. Otherwise “all boys” schools would just be utter chaos constantly (having worked in one i know that is not true), it’s a mix of behaviour, personality, teaching experience (or possible lack of). Not all boys are boisterous, just like not all girls are quiet and well behaved. Having also worked in an all girls school, the dynamics can be similar either way 🤷‍♀️. But to answer your question; if you feel it is best for your daughter and she would like to..then yes move her. However, it is an awkward time to join a new class in a new school.

bellinisurge Thu 04-Apr-19 05:59:41

It's not a "boys" thing it's a "poorly handled by the school " thing.

Litttlepinkegg Thu 04-Apr-19 10:20:27

free awkward time as it’s coming to end of school year would you wait until after summer hols or do you mean in general as dd is 6 now?
Agree it’s not a boy thing I think it’s a too many kids not enough staff thing sadly.

ForgivenessIsDivine Thu 04-Apr-19 10:47:17

Interesting read.. .. Don't underestimate the impact of the boy / girl ratio and it's impact on your daughter. I know not all boys are boisterous and naughty and up until 2 years ago, girls were outperforming boys at A level. However, boys still significantly outnumber girls in their performance and participation in Maths and physics which in many cases lead to higher paid jobs, whereas girls end up in caring professions which pay less. I read some research on classroom behaviours and their impact on the participation of girls in STEM subjects, recently which showed that girls were more likely to be asked to sit with disruptive boys and help them to concentrate or help them with their work. This rarely happens to the quiet studious boys who instead are left on the table with the other quiet studious boys who then progress at pace together. Boys are given more support when they struggle to read than girls are when they struggle with maths. Those girls who overcome all the obstacles and finally make it into the higher maths and science classes on average outperform the boys but they are in the minority. We live in a world where money and power are held by men and in order to give your daughter the best possible chance in life, you are right to move her. In 20 years time, there will still be an imbalance in the number of women in highly paid positions and there will still be a gender pay gap.

Litttlepinkegg Thu 04-Apr-19 10:54:33

STEM subjects, recently which showed that girls were more likely to be asked to sit with disruptive boys and help them to concentrate or help them with their work exactly what’s been happening with her reading/phonics partners which dd has asked me to speak to teacher about a couple of months ago and teacher said they’d put dd with certain s boys as she’s a sensible pupil

ForgivenessIsDivine Thu 04-Apr-19 11:14:49

This results in isolating your daughter from the other pupils in her class and prevents her from forming relationships that are beneficial to her.

The relationship between the teacher and your daughter is also impacted. Your daughter is praised by the teacher for being sensible and a good role model and is rewarded (by attention) for that behave our when in fact, she might benefit more by being allowed to explore her own personality, finish the worksheet first, concentrate on her own enjoyment and her own work.

These expectations are rarely put on the studious quiet boys, partly because tehy are at risk of being bullied by the boisterous ones.

Litttlepinkegg Fri 05-Apr-19 10:47:45

Thanks all.
On paper new school much better option smaller class sizes, good facilities, much better results.
Dh loved it.
I took dd for a visit yesterday and I think we both fell in love with it - the children were so friendly and all staff lovely. Classes looked interesting and all the children so engaged. My dd came out and said can I come back tomorrow please!
Anyway speaking to council today but new school are happy to approve a place for her from Easter and always add my toddler ds to their preschool too smile

ForgivenessIsDivine Fri 05-Apr-19 12:58:09

That sounds really positive.

Litttlepinkegg Fri 05-Apr-19 13:02:25

Thank you Divine feel nervous about the transition but hoping dd will settle in ok and think by starting before summer hols that give us the chance to set up play dates with new classmates and hopefully encourage those friendships to grow.
All a bit nerve wracking but I’m as sure as I can be that this would be a sensible move and give dd a better environment to learn in 🤞

Litttlepinkegg Fri 05-Apr-19 17:29:34

It’s done - application for transfer in and told her current school. Eeeeeek

whatsleep Fri 05-Apr-19 17:45:03

Sounds like you’ve made the right decision. If your daughter is happy at school she will thrive. Starting after Easter will give her time to find her feet and make friends rather than worrying about it through the long summer holiday. Best of luck to you all flowers

NorthernBirdAtHeart Fri 05-Apr-19 17:58:39

I’ve just read the whole thread, well done OP. If I was in your shoes I’d move her in a heartbeat.

Frazzled2207 Fri 05-Apr-19 18:37:35

Brilliant. This sounds like the right decision. Best of luck to your dd after the holidays.

Litttlepinkegg Fri 05-Apr-19 19:10:37

Thank you all I feel nervous about alll the changes but certain that I’ve weighed up all the information I can as well as my gut instinct.

PotteryLady Fri 05-Apr-19 19:14:10

I was in your shoes when my daughter was in Y1. Class of 12 4 girls 8 boys then 1 girl left. The girls were placed with the boys who were unruly and I watched my daughter change over night. School were useless so I moved her at Easter and it was the best thing I did. She was the same as your daughter, went for a transition morning and just wanted to stay and not go back to her other school. Don't worry it's for the best.

DobbysLeftSock Fri 05-Apr-19 19:47:06

Definitely think you've done the right thing OP. You do sometimes just get shit year groups (still happens at secondary) and it sounds as though there's been this and some poor teaching and management going on.

Fingers crossed for a new start and a much happier dd!

Girlicorne Fri 05-Apr-19 21:13:37

I m surprised at the number of people shocked at the class size. my two are at state primary in the Midlands, ofsted good not rural but not inner city either. we have always been happy with the school and both are doing well. DS has 34 in his yr 4 class, DD has 30 (yr 6) just one teacher, no TAs any more and I think given the current state of education funding this is set to get even worse. This is standard for class sizes around here as well it's not just their school.

Litttlepinkegg Sat 06-Apr-19 09:58:03

Told the school mums this morning. They’ve been very nice. This week be dd’s Last week at current school so wanted to let them know before we disappear. Lots to sort out now need to collect dd’s Work from school, new uniforms, hopefully play dates before she starts too xx

Acis Sat 06-Apr-19 10:26:35

My son’s in a yr q1 class like this, they seem to have put all of the loud, difficult, boisterous boys (my son being one of them) in the head of year’s class

A lot of schools seem to do this. DSis is a head of year and always gets allocated the most difficult class in the year group. She doesn't mind, because she has no problems with keeping discipline, but what concerns her is that the nature of being HoY means that she regularly has to be out of class attending meetings, monitoring other teachers etc. She says they are noticeably more disruptive after they have been with another teacher.

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