To think we can afford a nanny?

[Howdyhihi]

We have 3DCs. Still on mat leave with the youngest, other DC's are primary school age.

If I go back to work full time our joint household income will be about 60k after tax. In an ideal world, we'd like one more DC fairly soon. I've been trying to figure out childcare. DH is out of the house 7 - 5 and I'm out 8.30 - 6.30 (often later).

I figure a nanny sounds like a good way to juggle school runs, after school activities and infant childcare. I assume one will come to around 20k a year? When I do the maths we're still in the green, the other biggest cost for us is about 14k annually on the mortgage. (We're in the Midlands, not London).

Yet I feel like we don't earn enough to be able to afford a nanny! Are there hidden costs? I think it'll work out more cost effective than 2 DC's at nursery and then paying extra for wrap around care for the older two. And we'll get an easier life.

Is anyone already doing this? Should household income be higher than this before committing to a full-time nanny?

[Myusername2015]

There’s lots of advice on this on the nanny board. Basically it depends if you can recruit just a pre/after school nanny (if that’s what you mean) as most won’t due to the trapped time. When I budgeted for it it was over 30k full time in midlands to include tax and ni/pension. Remember you have to be their employer so take on all those responsibilities. Plus pay travel/cost of activities.
If you search nannynick he has some outstanding posts on how to work out the costs.
Good luck!

[wizzywig]

Yes, definately earn more than youre spending on childcare. If the nanny earns more than £10k pa, then you need to contribute to a pension. If you want to access taxfree childcare then its usual to pay for the nannys ofsted costs

[Catscakeandchocolate]

You have to pay for their pension which will add on quite a bit plus account for sickness and what costs you would need to outlay should they need weeks off work. We are currently wrestling with this for when I go back to work and deciding can we afford it.

[wizzywig]

Sorry op, i thought you asked if your wages should be more than nanny costs

[KnitterOfSocks]

Sounds like you'd need to pay a nanny probably 8-5.30, which is 9.5 hours a day. 5 days a week at £10/hour is £475/week. 52 weeks a year gives base salary of 24,700. Then you will be paying employers NI, pension contributions, sick pay, holiday cover if she wants different holidays to you, overtime if you are late back, her mileage at 45p/mile for any activities she does with the baby and school runs, kitty for her to do activities with the kids, the list goes on. You could easily add another 10k on top of her salary. Does it still stack up?

[Squiffy01]

I assume you have looked at agencies and things to get your 20k figure from and not just looked at ads and picked the lower end other people are offering?
But you will have whatever the gross salary is, employs NI and pension contributions. 4 weeks plus bank holidays as a minimum for holiday and if you can’s take it off then someone to cover it.

Things to take into consideration if you can’t easily afford it what position will you be in if nanny is ill for a long period and signed off work? And maternity pay (most is reimbursed but not all) so there would be a time paying for new nanny and some mat pay.

[IncrediblySadToo]

You need to work out exactly how much you’ll need to pay for a nanny. Assuming you’ll get a good one for £20k isn’t helpful here. You need to be sure of the cost. It’s a bit like looking at buying a house too, you need to be looking at ‘sold’ prices, not what they’re on the market for. Ask friends what they’re paying. Or start another thread with a title asking what others in your area are paying.

Then take the gross wage, plus other expenses, out of your net wages. (Other expenses such as heating, lighting, food, baby groups etc.)

Then see if you can live off the balance.

[Howdyhihi]

Knitter tbh I'd underestimated the hours, I guess there needs to be some cross over with when we get home and when nanny leaves to allow for traffic etc.

It looks like we're best to assume 30k over 20k. Tbh that's getting pretty close to my salary anyway. We would still have some money left over after outgoings, but not much of a cushion for unexpected expenses.

Looks like we have some thinking to do. Thanks for the suggestion of asking others how much they pay. I don't really know any people in RL who have a nanny.

[formerbabe]

20k sounds very low....though I don't have any personal experience of this.

A joint income of 60k after tax isn't a huge amount to be honest.

[formerbabe]

Quite frankly, I wouldn't look after 4 children full time for 20k... would you?

[nannynick]

£20k sounds low as employer cost for a full time nanny, such as 50 hours per week. How many hours per week would you need a nanny to work and what hours, eg: 7am-7pm, Mon-Fri?

Try to establish what salaries nannies can get in your area. Sites like NannyJob.co.uk have job listings. Also see Childcare.co.uk. When looking at job listings you want to find out the Gross pay being offered to nannies, so from that you can start to calculate your employer costs.

[stressystressy]

Also take into consideration that there will be other families offering the average nanny wage in your area to care for one baby. Four children is harder work, and therefore less appealing. You'd probably be looking at paying the higher end of the wage spectrum.

[nannynick]

Are you already getting Childcare Vouchers from your employer? If not then are you eligible for Tax-Free Childcare (both parents working, neither parent earning over £100,000 gross)?

If yes, then you should look for an Ofsted Registered nanny as they can accept payment via Tax-Free Childcare or Childcare Vouchers.
With three children TFC could save you up to £6000 (max saving based on £30k childcare cost and all children being of eligible age).

[RicStar]

Nanny share for the baby / s plus after school clubs might work esp if you can share with E.g. a teacher so nanny can have your 3/4 in school holidays but you will loose some (A lot) of the benefit of a nanny. Nanny jobs are generally much better paid than ta's / nursery assistants so I know some people who have got good nannies by poaching those.

[BirdieInTheHand]

You definitely need handover time morning and evening. I'd allow at least thirty mins. There's always a catch up required.

If you're on a tight budget you will need to make that clear at interview. Many nannies have an expectation that there is s decent kitty. If there won't be, be clear.

Remember that you're earnings are gross and you're paying a nanny gross, so if your nannies salary is coming close to your own then you're going to be operating at a loss.

[happyhillock]

Your having a laugh, 20k to look after 4 kids, wouldn't be me

[nannynick]

Would you provide a car for nanny to use? Some nannies may have a large enough car to transport 4 children but not all, especially when several children need quite bulky car seats.

[nannynick]

Try to get the children to stand still... getting confused if there are 3 (I have 3DCs) or 4 (2 DCs at nursery plus wrap around for the older two).

[caringcarer]

Dare I suggest you many be better off with an au pair, providing you have a spare room to accommodate them. I actually thought most Nannies lived in anyway. Could you not just use a child minder who will agree to look after younger children and collect older ones from school. At least until you get free government nursery hours. Then get childminder to drop off younger child at nursery.

[InnerCircle]

You have three children but want a fourth and you're worrying about finances...

Have you considered the obvious solution? hint: condoms / better TV package / intelligence

[Reaa]

The Au Pair suggestion fits your family needs better from what you have written.

[Howdyhihi]

To be honest I'm trying to find a way to maintain my career. I'm not in an especially well-paid industry but had to train for a long time to get here. Now I'm very conscious that I don't want to give it all up.

But we also want and love the life we have with our DC's. I guess there lies the paradox. I do have options for going self-employed etc, maybe thats a better middle ground, and put youngest DC(s) into nursery a few days a week.

Sorry if I've offended anyone with the 20k assumption. Wages where we live generally aren't that high. But you are all correct - people with one DC will be offering the same salary.

nannynick Thankyou for joining the thread! We do qualify for tax free childcare for all DC's. So that will be a big help whichever way we run things.

At the minute we have smallish 7 seater. Though would have to upgrade this if we had a 4th. There'd be no room bags etc. with an extra kid. I guess I should factor additional insurance costs into the overall nanny price too.

I think I need a spreadsheet!

[roses2]

Is a live in nanny an option? They will be better equipped to deal with 3-4 kids than an au pair.

And buy a bunk bed for the older kids :)